[00:00:00] Rob: Welcome to the Balanced Leader Podcast, where we tackle the ultimate challenge for leaders achieving peak performance without sacrificing your wellbeing. If you’re ready to lead with clarity, energy, and impact without burning. Then you’re in the right place. I’m Rob Hills, your leadership and wellbeing coach, and in each episode I’ll give you the insights, tools, and strategies that will enable you to thrive.

Today I’m joined by Chelsea Pottenger, high performance coach, keynote speaker, and one of Australia’s leading voices on resilience and mental wellbeing. Chelsea has worked with some of the world’s biggest organizations to help leaders and teams. Build mental fitness and prevent burnout. In this episode, we’ll dive into the practical tools and strategies that will help you lead with courage, clarity, and compassion, especially when the pressure is on today’s episode, felt more like a chat with an old friend.

I’m so grateful for Chelsea’s vulnerability and willingness to share. So without further ado, let’s dive into today’s episode with Chelsea Pottenger.

Welcome Chelsea to the Balanced Leader Podcast. Thank you so much for joining us today.

[00:01:22] Chelsea: And it’s fantastic to be here. Rob, thank you so much for inviting me as your guest today.

[00:01:26] Rob: Well, it’s so great to have you. Um, I have been following you online for, I think it’s about a year now, and I have so many questions for you, so I’m really excited to do, to ask those questions.

But before we jump in, can you tell us a little bit about your background and what led you to the work that you’re doing today?

[00:01:41] Chelsea: Yeah, of course. So my, my life honestly looked very different to what it does these days. Rob, you know, I’ve always been actually fascinated with the intersection of high performance and human wellbeing.

However, my, my journey before sort of pre mental illness, pres psychology degree, pre EQ minds, I was living a very fast-paced environment. I was in the corporate world myself, 11, 12 hour days. It wasn’t uncommon, you know, we would be very fast paced, achievement mode, tick boxes, end of the evening. I used to take my clients out for some drinks.

So Hendricks gin was kind of my vice back then. And yeah, I look, I still have a glass of wine on a Friday night. To be honest, I’m, I’m still not an absolute saint, but yeah, I, uh, I definitely don’t drink Monday to Friday anymore. Yeah. And the morning it was always like. Everything was pretty hardcore to be honest.

I’d get up very early. I’d hit the pavement pounding, pounding the pavement, you know, doing triathlon training. I did yoga maybe once a week, but I’d never stay for Shavasana, you know, I was just too busy. Yeah. To play there. Yeah. And it was that real, you know, back in my corporate career, this is 15 years ago now, it was a very rise and grind mentality.

You know, no rest days rise and grind. And that, that pace, to be honest, was pretty unsustainable. And then 2015, we were very blessed because we finally found out we’re having a baby. And Robert honestly took me seven years to fall pregnant with our daughter, Clara. And so when you’ve been trying for seven years and you finally find out you’re having a baby, you know you’re really happy because you’re like, wow, finally, right?

[00:03:23] Rob: Yeah.

[00:03:23] Chelsea: And then, you know, the most ironic thing happened, and the reason why I always use that word of irony is because. If you asked any of my friends or family members or what’s Chelsea like as a person, they would always say happy, optimistic, and that is honestly my natural disposition. I’m a happy, positive, optimistic person.

That’s naturally how I sit. However, I mean nine weeks post birth after giving birth to Clara. I ended up in a psychiatric hospital. Now, that was a, that was a journey that like kicked off about day three when I was in hospital, in terms of when the milk came in after birth. But it wasn’t until nine weeks that it was a critical moment where I was so severely unwell and sick that I got admitted straight into a psychiatric hospital in Sydney, really fighting for my life.

I, I was very, very unwell and I was suffering something severely called postnatal depression. And the safest place I could honestly be was, was laying in a hospital bed. And it’s really interesting when you end up in a psychiatric hospital because, you know, type a high functioning used to, you know, ticking things off the list and then all of a sudden you crumble.

And then, you know, you look around that hospital unit and I was very blessed, you know, at this hospital with St. John of God, moms and Bobs Psychiatric Hospital, it’s called, for anyone that’s listening, uh, there was other 12 moms in there and. They were all in the same position as me. And you know, there was lawyers in there and there was property developers and there’s a surgeon in there.

So very high functioning women actually, and we’d all just completely crumbled together. And so. That was quite insightful for me. Just even that alone, you know? And it took me five weeks to start to heal. You know, I was there for a five weeks stay. Our gorgeous little girl, Clara was nine weeks old when we first got admitted, so she was with me the whole time.

My husband would come every single day with my good friends and family and drop off pillows and you know, smoothies and everything are amazing. So had amazing support and it was actually. That was the catalyst that really made me change my entire life because at the end of the five weeks stay, my amazing psychiatrist, like, she’s just such an amazing human.

I, I still write her a card every year to say thanks for saving my life. I, I sit in the photos and, you know, like things that I’m up to these days. And, you know, she said to me at the end of the five weeks stay when I was leaving, she’s like, you know, Chelsea. You are such a nice person. Like we’ve been making smoothies for all the moms in here, like every morning, and she’s like, you are.

You’ve got a really weird fascination with your brain. I think it’s from working with Johnson and Johnson and you’re so interested in the science and what’s going on with your mind, and she’s like, and you’ve walked the issues of a very unwell patient, like you’ve seen what it looks like through a suicidal lens.

She would make such a nice psychologist, like, would you ever consider like changing your career? Mm-hmm. And I thought, okay.

I, uh, it was like this beautiful thing was born right? Like I just had this fire in my belly, in my heart going. I’ll do anything in my power to make sure no one ever ends up where I have just been right in this hospital for their mental illness. And so that was the beginning of a nine and a half journey to, you know, to where I am these days.

Uh, but that was really the catalyst for me to, to leave, to leave the city. You know, I moved to a small country town. I went back to university to study psychology. Hi. I’m still at university studying psychology. It’s, it’s a really long journey. Yeah. And I, I heard that you had Dr. Uh, Jody Lowinger on your podcast, who’s a beautiful human and does great work and takes a long time, right, to become a clinical psychologist and, and, but I’m still there.

I’m still on this journey. And to be honest, I’m so proud because to date, we’re trained about 2 million people across the world, around mental health, around mindfulness, around resilience, and, you know, around. Living a more whole life and, and it’s, you know, with some of, some of the biggest brands in the world that we work with.

But it’s what, what makes me so happy, Rob, is like the day that I get a message from the mom out in Regional Australia going, Hey Chelsea, I just read your book and you’ve got me through a really dark time. You know, and I just think. Wow. Like, I’ve actually helped one person in Australia. Like, that’s amazing.

[00:07:54] Rob: Yeah.

[00:07:54] Rob: What a story. First of all, thank you for sharing. Um, I appreciate your vulnerability in sharing that. What was it like, the feeling to go from where you were functioning? Like you said, type A, um, you know, pounding the pavement every day to this point where it was, it must have been difficult to function.

Hmm. How did you reconcile that? How did you, how did you cope with that?

[00:08:17] Chelsea: It was a completely different identity shift, right? You’ve gone from a high performing corporate executive to a, to someone who feels like they’re a burden, not getting it as a mother. So that was a huge, huge shift for me, and the fact that I got postnatal depression like.

I’m like, I really wanted this baby. Mm-hmm. Right. I’ve tried for seven years to get her. Yeah. Why have I now got anxiety and depression? Like this is something that I’ve really, this isn’t fair. And so definitely in those first few weeks I was in complete victim mindset. I was so depressed. Um, and with the help of, you know, St.

John of God and my psychiatrist and, and being medicated. To help with the chemical imbalance and then seeing an amazing psychologist myself and having therapy. And one of the best things that my psychiatrist did was actually prescribed me a couple of months at the Nin Temple. I obviously didn’t move there.

Uh, I went up there daily to learn a practice called Loving Kindness, compassion Meditation. And that cracked me wide open because it really helped me learn how to love myself again. You know, going through something that was carrying shame and guilt for going through that. And it wasn’t really spoken about Rob much back then.

You know, 10 years ago, not many people spoke about postnatal. It’s now really well spoken about and. It’s, uh, it’s been a journey and even when I was in the unit, someone gifted me Jessica Rose book and ’cause she had severe postnatal depression and in that, in that hospital thought, wow, this story has honestly been a savior.

It was a real, it was a real, I guess, light, a real torch for me to go. Someone as magnificent and incredible as Jess Rowe has gone through postpartum depression and recovered. Then that’s okay, right? Like that means I can recover and I shouldn’t carry this shame and guilt of having it. And I remember thinking in life, that hospital, you know, one day.

I’m gonna meet Jess Row in person and I’m gonna get to thank her. And uh, and that day did happen, you know, four years. Oh, amazing. Host the hospital. She was the mc at one of our, one of the conference events for the business chicks. Yeah. And we had this moment on stage where we just both burst into tears.

Uh, and she’s actually the quote on my book. And we’ve become lovely friends since then. So. Life. Hey.

[00:10:35] Rob: Yeah.

[00:10:36] Chelsea: You just never know what’s gonna happen.

[00:10:38] Rob: And isn’t it an amazing journey that you had this experience, but it’s catapulted you into something, a real sort of left turn, if you like, from where you are potentially going to where you are now?

Mm. And the experiences that you’ve had because of it. Mm. So you life like wow. Yeah,

[00:10:55] Chelsea: you know what? And Rob, it sounds bizarre, right? But you speak to a lot of people who’ve had post-traumatic growth, which is something that I’ve been very blessed that I’ve had. You know, I haven’t stayed in a victim mind, so I’ve been stuck for a decade.

I’ve actually grown from pretty severe adversity, and so I’m very grateful and lucky that I’ve been able to navigate through that. Is that people who come on the other side of severe adversity or, or real uncertainty or something happens in their life. Eventually, as the time passes, they will look back on that experience with a sense of gratefulness, because that’s how I feel with my experience.

It’s a very, it was a very humbling experience. It made me really redefine what success looked like for me. And I’ve always been a happy person, but I’ve never been this calm in my entire life. And I’m like, wow, I wouldn’t have known that. Right? Like I wouldn’t have. Known this life if I hadn’t have gone through it.

And so sometimes we need to crack right for the light to come through. And then you almost get onto this. For me, I’ve been really onto a, my calling. I feel, you know, that’s, don’t want that to sound too spiritual, but I really do feel like. This isn’t work for me. It’s, it’s a real, yeah. As I was saying to you before we kicked off, this is a joy.

Like this is just,

[00:12:08] Rob: I love it. And it must be comforting for people who are listening, who may be going through something at the moment themselves, who are at the, the bottom, if you like. Um, to hear that you can look back on this time and you, you, you might not feel it now, but in years to come, you might look back and go, uh, that was, that was part of my journey end.

I’m grateful for it. Mm-hmm. You may not have wanted it, but it actually, you become grateful for it.

[00:12:32] Chelsea: Totally. You never, you never want it. Right? Mm-hmm. Yeah. Like you, you’re laying in the trench going, why, why me? Like, why has this happened to me?

[00:12:39] Chelsea: And then, you know, my psychiatrist is like, well, why not you?

And it’s, you’re strong enough to be able to handle this. And it’s also something if there’s people listening who do, who are vulnerable or predisposed, transl, anxiety, depression, there’s something beautiful that she said to me that really I enjoy reminding myself of is that, you know, people who are anxious naturally have they, they’ve got this sort of double engine, they’re quite driven and they get up and go, and as long as that’s kept in check.

And so she said to me, I want you to be grateful for your anxiety because without it, you wouldn’t be this like. Really driven human being. And she said, we just need to keep that kind of in, in check. And she’s like, you almost don’t need coffee. And I said, don’t take coffee away from me. Like I love coffee.

Yeah. And then, uh, she said, be grateful that you have depression too. And she said, because without the depression. You get to experience all a range of emotions. You know, you don’t experience the full, raise the sunshine without the depths of the thunderstorm. And so she said your emotional vocab or emotional experience is wide.

And so I thought that was a really beautiful reframe on the anxiety and depression because people get so, so much shame, you know, they’re like, I don’t want anxiety and I don’t wanna tell people I’ve got depression. You know what we are who we are, right? And it’s just knowing what that is and managing through that.

I think there’s a real comfort as well. When you’re listening to people who go through similar things. You’re not alone. And that. Vulnerability does connect you to other humans, and I, I’ve really seen that over the last decade.

[00:14:13] Rob: Mm-hmm. So you’ve basically taken your experiences, you’ve taken your studies, and now you are teaching these skills to other people.

Would you call it mental fitness that you’re teaching people? Is that what it’s sort of like?

[00:14:25] Chelsea: Yeah, I’d say that. I’d say mental fitness because it’s the, it’s our ability, right? To meet the demands of modern life with a sense of clarity and calmness and. It’s not about, you know, never feeling stressed out because we all feel stressed and stress like is actually a good thing.

Like a little bit of stress is actually quite good for us. Mm. Uh but it’s about building the capacity to recover and respond rather than always be reacting.

[00:14:50] Chelsea: You know, like you see it when you know people are getting super ragey, right? Like, and you just like, wow, they just, you know, we can give them some tools to downregulate pretty quickly and.

I think mental fitness is just so important. Like I, I view it as important as my physical fitness, and I like workout physical fitness every single day, but I also take my brain to the gym every single day.

[00:15:13] Rob: Mm-hmm. And that’s wonderful. And I, I really think we need to be talking about this more because there are so much.

Culture around physical fitness. Mm. You’ve got your gym bros. You’ve got your people out there gonna the gym every day. Yeah. It’s everyone’s talking about it. Everyone’s doing it. That’s on Instagram. People are showing you, you know, I’m at the gym and this is me working out, or whatever. Why aren’t we talking more about, um, mental fitness as well?

Why aren’t we talking more about, well, this is what I’m doing today and I’m, you know, I’m sitting here meditating, or I’m writing my reflective journal, whatever it is. I think we need to be doing more of that.

[00:15:42] Chelsea: Yeah, that’d be cool. You know, I feel like a lot of people are doing that, but that’s probably ’cause of the world that I’m in and the community that surrounds me.

I feel like mm, most people are doing something for their mental health.

[00:15:52] Chelsea: Uh, and I have seen a huge shift change, to be honest, Rob, in the corporate world, you know, from when I started a decade ago to no one really knowing about mindfulness much here in Australia is huge in the eastern, you know, philosophy and, but we weren’t really talking about it in corporate Australia.

I like no way. And there’s been a big shift, right? Like now even with psych safety and, you know, being, it’s a requirement of companies to invest in their staff’s wellbeing. I mean, that’s massive. Like that is abso, I mean, there’s obviously a lot more work to be done, but I, I do feel like there’s a lot more amazing role models coming out.

A lot of great male role models as well, who are talking about this to normalize the conversation because sadly, you know, our suicide rates. Are not going the right way. You know, mental illness isn’t going the right way. I think COVID was a major impact due to loneliness. And so every tool you can get your hands on, you know, and it’s not everything is for everyone.

You know, meditation’s not gonna be for everyone. Journaling’s not gonna be for everyone. It’s like having a buffet of tools. And that’s kind of when we are doing our workshops and keynotes, we give people, like at Buffet, like you turn up to the cruise. And here’s a buffet of tools and you just choose what you like.

Yeah. You know, and just choose to, yeah. Right. Yeah. And things that you are going to enjoy to do and something that you can go, well, that kind of makes sense scientifically, and that’s something easy that I can do. And she’s telling me I can still have a coffee and I can still have a wine on the weekend.

And. I don’t have to run 25 Ks a day. Yeah. All right. I kind of like Chelsea. She’s, uh, she seems pretty normal.

[00:17:23] Chelsea: You know, so I think you, I think you, you got, again, you gotta live. I, I’m all about 80 20 in this life. I, I’d much rather live to 85 and have a cracking time and good health span.

[00:17:34] Chelsea: Uh, than being so restrictive and living to 95 and.

Losing all my mates because I, I’m not eating and running.

[00:17:41] Rob: Yeah. And I think that’s a really good one to remember. ’cause I can, I’m guilty of that too, where I get to the point where it’s almost perfectionism. You know, I’ve, I’ve gotta hit the gym every day and if I don’t, I feel guilty. Mm. And it’s that guilt that I think is.

Is good that it drives me, but it’s not good in the fact that it’s actually that critical voice in my head that’s saying, you’re not good enough, or you’re not worthy, or you’ve gotta do more. Well, no, you don’t. You’ve gotta have, you’ve gotta live and, and I like what you said, you know, live to 85, but health span along the way have some fun.

Mm-hmm. Like you’re only here for such a short time. Make the most of it.

[00:18:15] Chelsea: Absolutely.

[00:18:16] Rob: I really love this quote on your website, and I was hoping you could tell me a little bit more about it. It’s mental health is your superannuation. I’ve never heard that before. I love it. Can you tell us a bit more?

[00:18:27] Chelsea: Thanks Rob.

Yeah, that line, actually that quote came to me when I was at a retreat in, it’s called ana, it’s up in Queensland, and I was there at the dinner and I was listening to a, a bunch of financial advisors talk about investing into their super and how it’s all about setting yourself up, you know, financially and commercially.

So you are. You’re safe. Yeah. You’ve got financial security to the end. Mm-hmm. And I completely get that right. I invest too. I’m married to a banker, like I get financial investment and that’s a big part of our life as well. And then I was thinking, and I was sitting there and I’m like, hang on a second, but what about, you know, what about the vessel?

Like our mind and our body? And if we’re only planning financially for the end, but not investing into this, like our mental and physical health and wellbeing along the way. We’re kind of missing the point, you know, because really your mental health, it is your, your true super. You know, it’s what will carry you through to your very last breath.

Mm-hmm. And so I started thinking about things like, okay, yes, financial security is big, but also if our bodies in our, our wellbeing, uh, it’s almost like. Think of things like rest, mindfulness, movement, boundaries, sleep, nutrition, like your pillars, right? Like not as indulgences, but almost as like these deposits into your long-term wellbeing account and just like super, like the earlier and the more consistent you invest, the better the return.

And so that’s why that is on the website. Mental health is your superannuation. And here’s the truth, Rob. You know, if you don’t take care of your body, you don’t take care of your mind. Like this is the one home you get. Like, this is it. And if you’re not taking care of it, we’ve got nowhere else to live.

Yeah. You know, if you think about that, like where are we gonna live if we get dementia, get cancer through our body, like. There’s no, no other home to go live in. Like this is, this is the vessel that takes us to the end.

[00:20:26] Rob: Yeah, and it’s interesting. I listened to, um, Peter Attia talk a lot about, um, health span and that marginal decade, that last decade of life where if you don’t look after yourself now and.

By goodness if you haven’t started already, like crack on. ’cause now’s the time. Uh, if you don’t look after yourself now, then you’ll get to that marginal decade, that last decade, and it’ll be pretty miserable. But if you do the things you need to do and it’s not a lot, just look after yourself along the way, then that last 10 years can actually be really productive and you can enjoy life as as close to the end as possible.

[00:21:00] Chelsea: So true. You know, there, there’s this really cool place because I’m always about competing against who I was yesterday, like I don’t compete with anyone else. I’m like, well, how can I get better at things, right? For myself and these little 1% improvements? And I went to this. Epic place called Oracle Healthcare.

They’re in Sydney, part of the North Shore Hospital there, and you spend four hours, right? So you, you clock in. I know that sounds like a big time out of people’s time, but again, you know what? Four hours outta the whole year, I think it’s worth it. And you get in there, they do the DEXA scan, right? So they check your visceral fat, they check your lean body mud, muscle mass to see what’s going on in your system.

Then you go and you have your blood work done. So while having your blood work done and that comes back to the doctor, about two hours later you then go see your cardiologist. You have your heart done right. You check how, how the stress tests are. Then you go see professor of melanoma and they, you know, they check your moles and they.

Body scan, you’re there. Then you go see your doctor, your blood’s now back and she’s doing the full check. Then you go see the nutritionist after that. ’cause now the DEXA scan and all the scans are back to the nutritionist. So you create this six week plan, then you go and see the exercise physiologist and they work on your strength and flex and interesting things came out where I have got deficits, you know, like I work out every day.

I feel like I’m pretty dialed into this wellbeing piece. And she’s like, let me check your grip strength. She’s like being 44. If you’re not doing group work, it’s a huge indicator of longevity because you need to be able to open jars right. When you are in your eighties.

[00:22:27] Chelsea: She’s like, I’m assuming it’s low or very low, like very poor.

I’m like. Awesome. I said, that sounds like you’ve got a lot of confidence in my grip strength. So let’s, let’s do it. Do the grip strength test. Right? It’s this machine. You’ve gotta squeeze these things three times and it takes the average and then she takes it against the clinical evidence. And she talks about Peter Tear a lot as well.

This exercise physiologist. Uh, we love Peter Atia too.

[00:22:51] Chelsea: yeah. And anyway, so she was right. My score came back. As poor, almost very poor. And so she said a part of your next six week program. ’cause she’s got me doing a whole bunch of different things in the gym now that I wouldn’t normally do. She was like, you’re now gonna do Chin Hangs.

You know where you hang on your chin up bar and I need you to get to a minute 10. And she’s like, you’re also gonna do, farmer carries where you carry kettle bells. And a certain weight, you are gonna do 30 seconds of those three runs of those. So we’re doing this program together, right? Three times a week.

Now my first chin hang was like five seconds. It was absolutely just brutally hopeless. Yeah. Just couldn’t even, couldn’t even hang Right. And hold my body up properly. But over two weeks, I’m now up to like 24 seconds. Mm-hmm. And by six weeks, I’m hoping over a minute. A minute to ha. It’s not that long. Mm.

Right. But I know that I don’t wanna be in a nursing home or be a burden to our daughter, Clara at 84. Right. I wanna be independent in my house. I wanna be skiing mid seventies. And so like what you said with Peter Atia, you train now for the last decade. Yeah. Right. You major in your majors, you training now.

So you get this beautiful health span and I just think. Super cool.

[00:24:02] Rob: Yeah, and I love that there is more people talking about health span now. Mm-hmm. Um, certainly, you know, 20, 30 years ago, I think back to my parents’ time in life and it wasn’t really discussed much. Like, you know, going to the gym wasn’t that common.

Heck, for like the first 10 years after I got outta high school and when I was in the military, I focused more on cardio ’cause strength. I wasn’t, you know, I wasn’t a gym bro. I was just someone who liked to. You know, try and keep the weight off or whatever. Yeah. So, but nowadays it is such a, a thing people are talking about, and I think that I feel really good that we’ve got this thing that people are working towards, and society as a whole is going to benefit from this, you know, uh, not only individually, but the, the systems like, um, healthcare systems, old, uh, sorry, the age care system.

All of these things are going to benefit because we’re all taking care, better care of ourselves.

[00:24:51] Chelsea: Absolutely Abso, it’s all about strength as well, isn’t it? Like strength and flexibility and I love that. I love that movement. Yeah. You know, my daughter the other day, she’s 10 and she said to me, you know what, mummy, I’m so strong I’ve busted outta my tights because the tights are too small now.

Yeah, right. Imagine women saying that I’m too strong for these tights. Instead of going, I’m so fat, I need to get new ti, right?

[00:25:14] Chelsea: She, and she is so strong, our daughter, and it’s that constant modeling to her of like strength and energy, strength and flexibility and, which is just cool, you know, because it’s just, uh.

Yeah. Look, the amount of weights I lift these days, the protein, the creatine, the collagen, like everything that’s in this world being cauldron, it’s a lot. It’s also keeping me upright. Yeah. And keeping me.

[00:25:37] Rob: Yeah. Well, it sounds like Clara’s got a, an amazing role model, and I, I, like I said, I’ve been following you for about 12 months now, but for those people who don’t know much about you, you are obviously a, a high performer, but you seem to be choosing a slightly different path.

Now, correct me if I’m wrong, but it looks like. You spend a great amount of time working, but you also do a lot of great adventures. You seem to be off traveling with your family, your friends. Have you, have you cracked the code on balance?

[00:26:08] Chelsea: I think, uh, cracked might be a bit ambitious. But I’ve consciously, definitely redefined success and what that looks for me.

You know, the, the goal for me isn’t a big home or impressing people. I, I don’t even know, you know, it’s, it’s a regulated nervous system. It’s quality time with people that I really love. It’s waking up excited every day because. Peace is the real flex here. You know, it’s not burnout for me, it’s not constantly trying to prove myself to everyone.

Uh, I measure performance now, not by, you know, what I’m putting out and and doing, but the quality of presence in both my family, you know, in my home life as well as my work life. So our values very much are like. My health and all, our whole family, our health, physical and mental health is so, so important.

Our family and friendships, they are so important to us. Like, so spending really good quality time with them. Travel, we absolutely love travel and adventure and, and some charity work. So that’s kind of like the, that, that’s like our secret source of how we live and when we go on these breaks. So we do, these people are like, what?

How do you do? Why are you doing this? How are you doing this? So we take a break every six weeks. We do these six week sprints, and I do a lot of keynote speaking. Like I, I used to do 10 keynotes a week last year like we did. I did so many events and. Now I’ve scaled that back. My husband, Jay, is an amazing speaker, so he picks up a lot of the speaking instead of one of my other colleagues in the team who’s also incredible, Ashley.

And so I’ve stepped back a bit and only doing four, five Maxs on the road now, which has been an amazing shift. But the reason that I, that we can do that. Number is because I honestly think, and then this is the one thing I think that helps me not actually burn out. And after nine and a half years, like I actually haven’t had a sick day.

And I think it, and you know, you can think about how many thousands of people do I see every week and all those flights and trains and cars, and I’m just around humans like 24 7. Right?

[00:28:02] Chelsea: And, um. And I really do think that this is the, the one little secret that we do is that we, we work hard, we do fire.

When you’ve got your own business, you wear every hat. You do work really hard. But then every six weeks now, ’cause it’s my company, I can do this. I take a week off. Now for a lot of people, they’re like. Nice for you, however, I’m gonna encourage you to try instead. ’cause a lot of people have corporate jobs listening to this.

[00:28:28] Chelsea: It’s taking a weekend every six weeks and it’s something that my mentors taught me years ago and, and the reason that I kind of looked at the science of it in psychology and like, that’s really cool. And so when you have a break coming up, you know, Rob, you think about, I dunno, do you have a holiday coming up anytime soon?

[00:28:44] Rob: Tomorrow. Do you? Yes. I’m off to the snow tomorrow with the family. We’re going away for a long, long weekend. So, so exciting.

[00:28:51] Chelsea: Uh, may we to, we to Per Or Threadbow?

[00:28:53] Rob: Peria. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:28:55] Chelsea: Let you know because we’re going next Friday. Yes.

[00:28:57] Rob: Oh, there you go. Well, it sounds really good. The base is amazing, so I’m excited.

It’s gonna gonna be amazing. I’m so excited.

[00:29:03] Chelsea: Yeah. Um, so everyone who’s listening, if you could see Rob’s face right now, like he’s right going. And the reason being is something that we see in the psychology called anticipatory joy. And what that means is that two weeks before you go on a holiday or a break, you have a natural serotonin release and dopamine.

And so the coffee tastes better, the sky kind of looks bluer and. Which is great, right? You speak to anyone going on a break, and that’s how they sound. They sound chipper. And for people who don’t have a break, it’s pretty annoying for them because they’re like, well, I don’t have a holiday until Christmas.

[00:29:36] Chelsea: And so these short, sharper bursts of breaks, what happens is you get more of those anticipatory joy moments, Rob, where you’re like far out. I’m really enjoying the journey. Like I work hard for six weeks, then I’ve got a break coming up. Then I work hard again for six. It’s almost like interval training, to be honest.

And so. Then you go on this great break, then you come back. You might feel like you’ve got a bit of post-holiday blues after your skiing, but don’t worry, ’cause six weeks from now you’ve got another break coming up.

[00:30:01] Chelsea: And so instead of flogging yourself all year and then getting sick on day two with the flu because you haven’t taken a break for the year, and you’re limping over the finish line and you’re feeling stifled with the innovation, and you’re feeling cynical and you’re feeling exhausted, don’t do that.

Try this, you know, try every six weeks, just take a weekend. It doesn’t need to be going to peria. It could just literally be going camping, going off grid, right? Like, it’s you having quality time with someone that you love and it’s kind of just nailing your basics on that weekend. Mm-hmm. And so that has honestly been a game changer for me, to be honest.

And, and you know what, as well, Rob, I bloody love my life because I, there’s a lot of adventure and travel in there, so it’s not a monotonous. Existence for me. Like I don’t, you know, and I, I do like that. I, I don’t really like gonna the same place for holidays and living the same life 24 7. I like to mix things up a bit.

[00:30:56] Rob: Yeah. And it is a journey, right? And I think the more you can enjoy the day to day, the better your life feels. And there’s a quote that came to mind as you’re speaking. Design a life you don’t need a break from. What do you don’t need a holiday from? Mm-hmm. You know, have it built in so that it’s just a part of your everyday existence, which it sounds exactly what you’ve done.

The other quote I want to throw back at you is. Peace is the real flex. I dunno if you’ve said that one before, but that’s really cool. I’ve written that one down. So I like that.

[00:31:24] Chelsea: That’s,

[00:31:25] Rob: I love that. That’s my flex.

[00:31:27] Rob: Yeah. That’s cool. So tell me, Chelsea, what does a typical day look like for you? And I realize that might be hard to answer because, uh, you know, lots of different things going on, lots of different ways that you are living your life.

But how do you weave in your wellbeing practice so that you do maintain your wellbeing?

[00:31:43] Chelsea: Yeah. Now my morning routine, uh, might seem like. Alright, Oprah. Like that’s a billion things to do when you first wake up. Yeah. And it’s not meant to sound like that. Yeah. But I do have a pretty structured morning routine, to be honest, before I kick off the day.

So it, it varies, you know, with the rhythm, whether I’m at home or whether I’m on the road traveling for work. But my. My optimization of my morning routine definitely anchors me. And so it’s a non-negotiable, to be honest, Rob, in my life. Um, and it’s an intentional start that includes, first of all, not looking at my mobile phone.

You know, it’s just so toxic for us to wake up and look at the phone and take those data points in and see the pain of the world. And that’s kind of how we set the day, right? So the alarm clock goes off, which the alarm sound now is a standing ovation. So my daughter and I changed our alarm clock sound to a clap.

And so we wake up every morning to. People applauding us, and it is hilarious. Oh, I love that. Totally. Yeah. Then, um, then I got, I just practiced gratitude in the morning, you know, uh, just, I, I just think there’s some really cool research around that. And I just think, okay, I woke up great pillow, you know, my beautiful daughter, little chubby hands holding my hand and, you know, just little things.

Uh, and then I get up, I, you know, do the usual things and I brush my teeth. Which is different to most people. Probably I brush my teeth with the opposite hand standing on the other leg. Um, just because of some cool stuff that I read from Dr. Daniel Amon around what it does with dexterity in the brain.

It’s really mindful activity plus balance is really important for longevity. So I kind of put my brain to work, right. Straight up. Yeah, absolutely. Uh, then I smash a massive glass of water because our brain is 75% water. I, I think that’s the, the start. And so that’s a lot, right? So you need a good hydrated brain, uh, before I kick off my day, and that’s before I, you know, consume my first coffee.

I really enjoy coffee. If I, if my anxiety ever flares up, I’ll cut the caffeine for four weeks, just so my gaba. Neurotransmitter can regulate, but you know, it’s very rare that I get anxiety these days. So I really enjoy, uh, you know, a coffee in the morning and then I get out and I, I work out, right? So I’m literally off, I’m exercising for 30 minutes.

It’s either weights, it’s bike riding, it’s surfing, it’s um, walking it’s horse, whatever that looks like. Uh, get back lots of cuddles with my daughter, Clara, if I’m at home. Um, and then my husband and I will walk her to school. Uh, then I come home hot, sort of cold shower. Um, and there’s some nice research around sort of cold water at the end of the hot shower.

And then I sit down if I’m here at home, like, you know, review the list and think about, okay, what’s the most important thing today? And then I start my day and my day is either, you know, it can vary between a couple of keynotes for the day, a couple of virtual workshops on the day, some podcasts around that, some briefing calls.

And then, you know, just like social media uptake, it’s whips with my team. It’s like, I mean, you get this right, as a small business owner, we, we wear every single hat, right? And so then I’m like, gotta record some meditations. I’m writing my second book, and so I know that sounds like a lot. Yeah, everyone’s kind of got their own bag of busy of what they do in their current roles.

However, what I’ll always do, which some people don’t know that I do this, but every afternoon I schedule in, I’ve got a like meeting thing locked in. In the afternoons, it’s just an appointment with myself, and it’s where the team can’t overbook it with anything. And I do a non-LEP deep breath protocol just in meditation for 10 minutes.

And so I find that that really recharges my brain in the afternoon. Um, I’m not studying at the moment this year, so to be honest, that’s giving me back about 25 hours a week, uh, in my calendar. So I’m being. Pretty mindful of, of where I’ve reclaimed that time now. And so, um, I, I make sure, I definitely do deposits throughout the day for my wellness and, and not bolt it on at the end of the day.

’cause I feel like if I don’t do it in the morning and then schedule in a break during the day and I get to the afternoon evening and I’m tired and so then I just don’t get to it. Right. So. I, yeah, I do little mindful things throughout the, I eat, eat lunch, not in front of the computer, like just little basic things.

You know, I’m having a conversation to someone in Ong at the cafe and my phone’s nowhere near me. I’m just like looking in them in the eyes, like imagine that. Yeah. Yeah. You know, having conversation, someone looking in their eyes. Yeah.

[00:36:09] Chelsea: Uh. And so that’s, you know, the reason why I’m pretty fastidious about those little things throughout the day is because it’s all about part of the bigger picture, right.

Of showing up. Well, um, both for myself and for other people. And you know, to be fair, Rob, people pay a lot of money to have me come and speak to their companies. And then it, that’s, it’s not just about the money, it’s about the time.

[00:36:33] Chelsea: And people are giving up an hour of their time to listen to me speak and.

I wanna make sure that is so high value for them. And if I turn up and I’m sleep deprived and I ate, you know, some bread rolls for me in the morning, which would kill my stomach, and then I didn’t do exercise, I didn’t meditate. I’m eating chips and then, you know, and I’d turn up with a Red Bull and try and speak about my, I mean, I ate soft brand.

[00:36:57] Chelsea: It’s just not fair. It’s not fair to the, to the clients and the, and, and the people in that room. Yeah. So I’m really, really mindful of that stuff.

[00:37:04] Rob: There are so many threads that I wanna pull on there that the, um, morning routine sounds amazing. Uh, but you did say something there about nons sleep, deep rest.

So is that based on Andrew Mann’s protocol? Is it, could you tell the listeners a little bit more about what that is?

[00:37:19] Chelsea: Yeah, of course. I actually went and recorded. Uh, my own Nons sleep Deep Rest Protocol two weeks ago. Nice. Sitting in the studio. I’ve just put it up on Insight Timer. Actually, two days ago.

I haven’t told the community about it yet. I was gonna launch it live next week. But if people don’t want the clinical version of Andrew Huberman, I just record a bit of a softer version. Uh, if they wanted something a little bit different to that. But I love Andrew Huberman. I want to give him a massive shout out because.

Incredible human doing amazing things. And so there’s some really cool research around Onsleep deep rest and what it does for people. You know, like it helps them restore, you know, a sleep deficit. Now we still definitely need to sleep, but it just helps re-energize the brain. So the prefrontal cortex gets a bit of a workout in it.

I’ll just tell you the scientific benefits first, and then I’ll tell you what the practice involves. Um, the, it’s. Given the nature of the practice, they say that it gets us into a different brainwave. So what that means is that if we can hit gamma brainwave while we are doing this mindfulness meditation practice, we become a lot more creative.

Now, it’s not necessarily when you are doing the practice, it’s actually like for the next sort of 24 hours. So. You know when you’re chopping carrots and you’re washing your hair and driving the car and you get these thought bubbles that pop up.

[00:38:33] Chelsea: Some people will have rumination and they’ll sweep back.

Some people will be thinking about other things. I find that when I’m doing this practice religiously, like, I mean daily, is that. I get a lot more innovative and uh, and I feel that. And then the other thing is it’s very calming on the whole nervous system. So it’s nice downregulation. And so when I feel a little bit, if I ha if I’ve had too many coffees, it is the practice I lean on to downregulate myself straight away.

Uh, and so. It just helps me stay very, very sharp in the mind and less reactive and things like that. And so if you go ahead and listen, Andrew Human’s Got it on YouTube. I’ve got it on my YouTube channel, as well as Insight Timer. And what it is you’ll hear, it is like a particular sort of breath work, and then it is almost like a pretty fast paced through a body scan.

Where we get you to visualize almost like a torch light on these particular body parts and imagine that they’re releasing tension and it’s for 10 minutes and that’s kind of where it’s at in terms of 10 minutes a day. For me, it really works and it’s not gonna be for everyone. You know what I’m saying, Rob?

Like the buffet of tools.

[00:39:41] Chelsea: it’s not gonna be for everyone. So I always say to people, try everything once. Yeah. You know, if you don’t love it, don’t do it again. Yeah. Like do something else, but at least give it a go. You know? I just think people will be. Uh, I think they’ll be pleasantly surprised.

[00:39:55] Rob: And is that like a 15 minute, 20 minute thing?

[00:39:58] Chelsea: I know Andrew does them for 20. There’s some good research out there around 10 to 12 minutes as well. So I keep mine at 10. Again, it’s like a, for me, I do the smallest things I can for the maximum impact on my brain. You know, that’s why I do a 32nd cold water shower.

I do a 10 minute meditation every day. I do a 30 minute unwinding period. I do a 30 minute exercise workout. I’m kind of looking at the evidence going, well, what’s the shortest amount of time I can pop in?

Yeah. To get the maximum gain for my brain, because we are also time compressed and I hear people meditate for two hours a day.

I mean, amazing. Yeah. I just do not have two hours outta my day to be in a state of meditation. I just, I just don’t, and I. I dunno if I want to,

[00:40:39] Rob: to be honest. Well, and two hours of meditation and then you’ve gotta do, you know, your gym work and then you’ve gotta do your journaling and then it all adds up.

So I love the sub maximal, like whatever the, the minimal amount of time is.

[00:40:51] You know and 10 minutes seems really achievable. So I really like that. Yeah. So I’m absolutely gonna check that out. Chelsea, I’ve absolutely failed as an interviewer. Again, we are coming close to the end of time and I’ve still got lots and lots of questions, so maybe.

Possible in the future I could get you back to, to finish some of these questions. That would be amazing. Yeah. Um, but what’s one final thought you’d like to leave listeners with today? Because we didn’t cover a lot of ground. I, you know, we covered a lot of ground, but, uh, there’s probably still some other things there.

So is there anything that we didn’t cover that you’d like to leave people with today?

[00:41:23] Chelsea: Firstly, Rob, I’ve really enjoyed this chat. I feel like I’m catching up with a friend. Yeah, me too. Uh, having a coffee before 2:00 PM so it doesn’t pla down deep sleep.

[00:41:32] Rob: Exactly.

[00:41:34] Chelsea: Yeah. Uh, I think, you know what, let’s just circle back into that whole, your wellbeing is your superannuation.

I just think that’s, if listeners literally go, okay, it’s not a luxury, it’s not a bonus at the end, you know, of burnout. It’s the investment that sustains your performance, like your capacity to lead. So I think it’s just this whole reminder again, Rob, around what, what’s our life meant to be about? You know, we, we weren’t born to spend our life performing and chasing more and proving yourself only to end up completely exhausted and disconnected with no friends left, you know?

And. Real peace. It, it completely feels different and it’s, it’s waking up in the mornings without dread. Mm. It’s creating like this calm mind, and it’s being surrounded by people who make you feel completely seen and supported and not drained. Mm. And I really do believe that the, the future belongs to leaders who know how to work sustainably and not just hard.

And so people who are listening right now, I just say, Hey, just choose a rhythm. You can actually live with. We can’t be everything to everyone. And so just be really clear on your boundaries and, and invest in yourself daily. It’s, it’s worth, it’s worth it, right? Mm. It’s the, the vessel’s worth it.

[00:42:44] Rob: Yeah. And it absolutely pays dividends.

So thank you so much, Chelsea. I, the feeling’s mutual. This has been such a wonderful conversation, uh, which is probably why I get caught off track or off side, off sidetrack. Sorry. Um, so. Again, if people want to connect with you or find out more about what you’re doing, what’s the best way they can do that?

[00:43:03] Chelsea: Thanks, Rob. The best way is just through our website, EQ Minds, so that’s E-Q-M-I-N-D s.com. We’re on Instagram as well at EQ Minds on LinkedIn, Chelsea, Pottenger, any of those platforms. We are pretty prolific on social, so you’ll find us somewhere. Uh, but yeah, look forward to for anyone reaching out, I look forward to connecting with you.

[00:43:26] Rob: That’s amazing. Thanks again, Chelsea. Really appreciate it. Thanks, Rob.