[00:00:00] Rob: Welcome to the Balance Leader Podcast, where we tackle the ultimate challenge for leaders achieving peak performance without sacrificing your wellbeing. If you are ready to lead with clarity, energy, and impact without burning out, then you’re in the right place. I’m Rob Hills, your leadership and wellbeing coach, and in each episode I’ll give you the insights, tools, and strategies that will enable you to thrive.

Today I’m speaking with Andrew Rooke, a former corporate executive who was running a FinTech company with 550 people and $120 million in revenue by the age of 37. And then burnout forced him to completely reimagine his approach to both his leadership and life. Now as an executive coach specializing in development psychology, Andrew helps leaders develop what he calls psychological maturity to perform at their peak without the stress and overwhelm.

Today we dive deep into the unconscious patterns that drive our stress, how to identify your triggers before they hijack your performance, and why taking full responsibility for your inner world is the ultimate leadership superpower. This is an awesome episode. I really hope you enjoy it. So without further ado, let’s dive into today’s episode with Andrew Rooke.

Welcome Andrew to the Balance Leader Podcast. Thank you so much for joining us today, mate.

[00:01:39] Andrew: Yeah, thanks for having me, Rob. I’m, I’m delighted to be here and I’m really looking forward to the interview. It’d be great.

[00:01:44] Rob: Me too, mate. Before we jump in, can you tell us a little bit about your background and what led you to do the work that you’re doing today?

[00:01:51] Andrew: Yeah, sure thing. Uh, well, in, in short, uh, I was a corporate executive. Uh, you know, by the age of 37, I was effectively running a, a FinTech company. Responsible for about 120 million revenue and about 550 people all over the world. Uh, and we were doing, you know, I started in transformation in, in that company and ultimately ended up, uh, you know, for the best part, running the company.

And, uh, we were doing business process outsourcing and wealth management for some of Australia’s biggest superannuation funds. And also, uh, some of the UK’s biggest, uh, pension funds. Um. And so yeah, prior to that I had a long career in technology and finance and investment banking and uh, yeah. And ultimately I burnt myself out, age 37.

Uh, in that role, uh, that was a combination of just a really demanding. Role itself, but also the travel associated with that. You know, I was in the UK every couple of weeks and that takes it out of you. Yeah. Uh, that sort of intense, hectic travel schedule and trying to lead a team of 500 plus and, um, yeah, so I, I ultimately, I burnt myself out and, you know, uh, mutually when we got bought out by a private equity fund, uh, there was a mutual decision that I’d, I’d make an exit.

You know, that’s the best thing that’s ever happened to me in, in my life, apart from probably my marriage and son. Yeah. And so, yeah, that led me to, to this, uh, calling now, which is really to help people, uh, get the best out of themselves. And I’ve seen all sides of the coin, all three sides of the coin on that.

Mm-hmm. Uh, you know, help people get the best out of themselves, predominantly through their mind. And so, you know, what’s going on, on, on the inside of us is ultimately what we share and reflect on the outside of us. And the results we achieve in life are a, are, are a total of what’s going on on the, on the inner world.

And so I love what I do. You know, I’ve been doing this for six years now and yeah, I work with executives, uh, business owners and yeah, it’s just a joy to wake up every day and, and, and roll with some great people.

[00:03:57] Rob: Uh, that sounds amazing. What a great way to do, uh, life, I suppose. Yeah. How does that look for you? Does it, is it executive coaching primarily? Is it workshops? What sort of work are you doing?

[00:04:07] Andrew: Yeah, it’s a bit of both. So, you know, we have, uh, you know, I guess there’s a few strengths to the bow. There’s the private one-on-one executive coaching Yeah. With executives and business owners. And we also have a, a, a group.

Uh, offering that we have, it’s a little mastermind. We run it every Wednesday morning, and actually what we do is adult development. And I’ll, I’ll talk about that more as we go. I’ll weave it in, but it’s a little different to most executive coaching and coaching. It’s very much, uh, it’s focused on developmental psychology.

And so we have the one-on-ones. We have our, our group masterminds, and yeah, I also do workshops as well. And so we’ve got a bit of everything.

[00:04:45] Rob: Mm-hmm.

[00:04:46] Andrew: Um, and you know, we’re moving into a space now where adult development’s becoming more and more important, um, because as we see AI sort of coming into the, into the sphere pretty predominantly, um, really the only way that humans are gonna have an edge is to develop themselves so that they can see beyond.

Uh, the capacity of AI and the capability of ai, and so I’ll talk more into that as as we go. But yeah, that’s what we do.

[00:05:12] Rob: Great. And yeah, we’ll definitely come back to the ai. I’ve just done a, an episode recently about AI for leaders, and I was having a conversation with a friend this morning about just trying to stay at the forefront and, and not lag too far behind.

So we’ll definitely circle back to that one. Fabulous. Yeah. Was there a pivotal moment for you that shifted how you thought about performance and wellbeing? I mean, you talked about the, the burnout at age 37. Was, was that sort of the, the start of it?

[00:05:39] Andrew: Uh, yeah, it was. I mean, I always wanted to run a company and I was very driven by ambition, status, power, um, I don’t wanna sound like a megalomaniac, but it’s just, it’s just true.

Yeah. You know, all, all the way up to the mid thirties, you know, I wanted more for myself. Uh, and the predominant way that, you know, I was going about that in the world was yeah, through the career. Um, you know, more money, um, bigger roles, uh, more influence, et cetera. Mm-hmm. Uh, and I was very successful at that for a long period of time.

But then, you know, every sword has two edges. Mm. And so if you push too hard, the other edge will come through. And so I guess I fell on my own sword in a certain sense, because, you know, I was running so hard in this world of ambition, uh, that I had no gas left in the tank.

[00:06:27] Rob: Yeah.

[00:06:27] Andrew: And it, and it became unsustainable.

And so the way that I’d worked, uh, pretty much all of my life became unsustainable with the degree of complexity that I was facing, you know, uh, spending so much time. At work, in work, you know, there was no time for family. Mm-hmm. There was no time for the marriage. Yeah. And so, you know, I was over emphasizing one aspect of life and under emphasizing the others and, you know, ultimately, yeah.

That was unsustainable. And, and then it came to a head when I was about 37. Uh, and yeah, that, that was the turning point for me. I sort of. I knew in myself that, you know, I couldn’t go much longer, uh, with the model that I was using for my life, and I, I didn’t know. What the other side looked like. Mm-hmm.

Yeah. But I knew there was just unsustainable. Yep. And so, you know, I think for me, I was fortunate that we actually got bought out and, you know, I was already thinking about what’s next for me. And so it all came together, uh, at once. But yeah, the basic. Answer to your question is I knew it was unsustainable and my wife was also telling me so as well, which is always a good hint.

Oh, that’s right. You know, sometimes, you know, uh, my wife was outta the curve on that one. Yeah. And, um, I missed, I missed almost the first four years of my son’s life. Mm-hmm. And, you know, I was feeling a bit of shame and regret about that. So that was churning away in the background. And so yeah, something had to change.

[00:07:53] Rob: Yeah. If this resonates with leaders because they’re feeling a little bit stuck. Mm. Do you think it has to come to a head? Do you think it has to come to that, a pivotal event before people can change? Or can they sort of go, this is enough, maybe I need to make a change proactively? Yeah.

[00:08:10] Andrew: Well, I think it’s both.

Mm. Uh, for most people. They usually run Right. Headlong into it. Yeah. And they get into the mess and then they figure out, and this is kind of like me, right? Mm-hmm. And, and, and then they’re kind of swimming.

[00:08:23] Rob: Mm-hmm.

[00:08:24] Andrew: And, and drowning in the complexity of life.

[00:08:26] Rob: Yep.

[00:08:27] Andrew: And then they know that there, there needs to be a change, but they’re not sure what or how.

Uh, and and often that’s where people come into the coaching with, with us. Uh, and then there are some people that are more proactive and, and they see their own patterns playing out in their life. And, you know, they proactively seek a mirror. Or they make the change for themselves. So I think you can have both.

Mm-hmm. Uh, but by and large for humans, what I see is they need to run into the brick wall before they change. Yeah. Um, by and large.

[00:08:55] Rob: Yeah. Well, and I think that’s been my experience and with most people I’ve spoken to. And I think also, yeah. Uh, it comes as an age thing, perhaps as a, a young leader where charging ahead Sure.

Um, as we get older, we get a bit more reflective, but by that stage. There is a, a high chance you perhaps have already had a burnout experience or you’ve, you’ve gone through something that’s caused this, so,

[00:09:15] Andrew: yeah. Well, one thing I’d love to reflect to you, perhaps before we move to the, the next question is, you know, I’m just gonna carry, encourage the audience to.

Think about what you just shared in terms of age.

[00:09:27] Rob: Mm.

[00:09:27] Andrew: And then actually recontextualize it a little bit to be developmental maturity. Mm. And so I’m just gonna invite the audience to think about, you know, have you ever seen a 60-year-old with the maturity of a 30-year-old? Now, I’m sure most people would answer that.

Yes. I didn’t wanna be too quick to see. Yeah. I don’t wanna judge anyone. Right. Yeah. And then conversely, you can see 18 year olds that have got the wisdom of a 45-year-old. Now, what’s the difference? The difference is their degree of psychological maturity. Mm-hmm. And so actually what’s going on with people and whether they seek.

To disrupt their own patterns and seek to improve their quality of life and, and, and go to the next altitude is a function of their psychological maturity. And so when we talk about adult development and developmental psychology, that’s what we’re talking about. We wanna make, uh, you know, well, we want to invite people who might be 30 years old in age to step into a 45 year old’s mentality.

Yeah, I really like

[00:10:34] Rob: that. That’s, that’s really interesting. And I’m wondering if awareness is the key component of that. Self-awareness is, of course. If you don’t have that self-awareness to go, oh, maybe I’m a little less, uh, psychologically mature as I could be, um, maybe you’re not gonna get that

[00:10:51] Andrew: a hundred percent.

Self-awareness is the key to everything because you can’t change what you can’t see. Yeah. And so you know about two and a half percent. Of our reality is seen at any one point in time, and so there’s 97.5% that’s unseen, that’s unconscious. And so the biggest move you can make in life is to bring the unconscious conscious.

And so I know a lot of people talk about, you know, mindset, et cetera, et cetera. You know, the biggest move in, in mindset is to actually make the unconscious or the unknown, or the unaware parts of yourself. Bring it into your awareness. Allow them to be known and that, and that’s all the parts of yourself, the parts that you like and the parts that you don’t like.

Mm-hmm. They all need to come along for the ride. And, and so yeah, you’re right. Self-awareness is the key.

[00:11:43] Rob: Yeah. Is this something that you think people can do by themselves, and if so, are there some good starting points for people to, to, to work with, to try and make that unconscious conscious?

[00:11:56] Andrew: So yes and no.

Um, so the, the real honest answer, and this is not, you know, self-promoting in any way, shape, or form. I think there’s 20,000 coaches in Australia, so this is not self-promoting. But you know, even for me, I have multiple coaches and so to have a mirror that can reflect back to you what you can’t see in yourself, will accelerate your development tenfold.

Yeah. There’s just no doubt about that. Mm-hmm. Provided the mirror. Is more mature than you. Mm-hmm. And I see a lot of people hiring coaches that aren’t at the level of maturity of their client, and they’re wondering why they’re not getting the change.

[00:12:34] Rob: Mm-hmm.

[00:12:34] Andrew: So the first thing that I’d say is yes and no, and it’s always better to have a mirror who can see the parts of you that you can’t see.

The second thing is, yes, you can do the work yourself. And I would just invite people to look at their triggers, you know, so look at what’s disturbing your peace. You know, look at what’s grabbing you in life. You know, what are you frustrated with or fixated on, or, you know, what is your body involuntary responding to?

And they’re your triggers. And every trigger that you have is an opportunity to actually develop your self-awareness. And so we want to get to a point where we’re not moved by anything. Mm. You know, it really doesn’t matter what’s going on outside of us. We, we are as calm as a lake, as calm as an ocean.

And a placid ocean, I should say. Yeah. And, and, and you know, from that space, we can respond rather than react, and we’re gonna respond with a wide range of choice. So let’s think about this for a moment. The quality of a person’s life is the sum total of the choices that they’ve made. And if you’re reacting to things, you’re not choosing.

Your unconscious is choosing for you and you’re just playing out patterns from childhood. Mm-hmm. And so we wanna get into this space where we’re not really triggered by anything anymore, and we’re just calm and we’re centered, and we’re grounded and we’re choosing for ourselves. And that’s the way we’re gonna show up best in life.

And when we show up best in life, we’re gonna, we’re gonna have the results in the outer world.

[00:14:13] Rob: I’m, I’m fascinated by triggers. Um, probably ’cause I have quite a few myself. Um, so I’m wondering, and this has been a, a lifelong work for me and it started when I was in, um, the defense force. Right. And, uh, learning a bit about myself through mindfulness and meditation.

Mm-hmm. What are some of the things that people can do to identify those triggers? Obviously, um. People must have a fairly good idea of what the ones that are that are right on the surface are. Yeah.

[00:14:40] Andrew: But

[00:14:40] Rob: how do they go a little bit deeper to go, what are the ones underneath?

[00:14:43] Andrew: Yeah. I would say any movement in the body at all is a trigger.

[00:14:48] Rob: Mm-hmm.

[00:14:49] Andrew: And so if we think about emotions. Emotions are really just labels on physical sensations. So let’s say someone’s, you know, experiencing what they would label anger. Now anger could be frustration, irritation, jealousy, envy, or anger itself. Like, you know, there’s a constellation of, um, you know, these emotions, right?

But somebody’s got a for anger to exist. What’s happening is there’s a mental event around an external stimulus. So let’s say you’re in relationship with another, like your boss. You know, let’s say you’re CEO, you’re a middle manager in a company, and your boss criticizes your work or says you know you’re late, or this deliverables late, or whatever it is.

Then for most people, what they’ll experience is they’ll be making some sort of meaning around that, oh, I’m not good enough. Mm. You know. He or she doesn’t love my work. Uh, I’m not worthy to be in this role or whatever it is, right? So there’s some sort of mental event happening in the face of the boss and the body.

Will shift, there’ll be an energetic movement in the body. And so for anger, often it’s, it’s, it’s in the solar plexus or the stomach somewhere. Yep. And there’ll be this pulse of energy. And so even if you’re not aware of your thoughts and how you’re making meaning, your body will tell you. Mm. And so as soon as your body’s moved into a, let’s say, uh, a, an an uncomfortable state, that’s a sign that you, you are triggering yourself.

And that’s a sign to actually stop and say, oh, what’s going on for me here?

[00:16:36] Rob: Mm-hmm.

[00:16:36] Andrew: And in the example of, let’s say, the boss criticizing your work

[00:16:40] Rob: mm-hmm.

[00:16:41] Andrew: It’s not about the boss.

[00:16:43] Rob: Mm-hmm.

[00:16:45] Andrew: And it’s not about the work.

[00:16:46] Rob: Mm-hmm.

[00:16:48] Andrew: It’s, it’s about you and how you are making meaning out of that situation, mentally and in the body.

And and there’s an opportunity for you to change that meaning and to not experience anger, just experience, let’s say clarity. And so this is like, you know, if we can get this work right, then all of our life gets to be spent in peace.

[00:17:20] Rob: Yeah. Oh, absolutely. And I imagine there’s leaders listening going, doesn’t that sound amazing?

Because I feel stressed. I am constantly stressed. I’m constantly worried about what other people are thinking of me. Mm-hmm. What are some of the hidden costs involved in that stress and. What can people do to, to sort of go, okay, I realize it’s happening, but there’s another way.

[00:17:43] Andrew: Right? Yeah. Yeah. So I mean, there’s so many hidden costs in the, in the stress, right?

Mm. I mean, so in terms of health and physical vitality. You know, that’s a big cost. Mm-hmm. You know, if you, if you’re running around thinking about stuff all day and ruminating and, you know, having all these emotions, you are taxing your body and your body’s gotta, uh, devote so many more resources to repairing itself and recovering.

[00:18:10] Rob: Mm-hmm.

[00:18:11] Andrew: And so this is where people start to experience fatigue. Brain fog, tiredness, loss of working memory, et cetera, et cetera. And, and it’s a sign that your mental, emotional world, most people look to the physical, they’ll go to the doctor and they’ll just say, I’m knackered, and, and the doctor has no idea what to do.

[00:18:30] Rob: Yeah.

[00:18:31] Andrew: And the reality of it is doctors are not trained in the mental and emotional world, and this is what’s driving the bus. And so, you know, we exhaust ourselves physically through our mind and this is only really just, uh, becoming part of the cultural, uh, dialogue if you like. Now people are becoming much more aware of it now and it will become much more that way over the last 10 years.

But yeah, our traditional models of health are, are failing us. So that’s on the, on the health front. Um, you know, the quality of a relationship suffers greatly. You know, if one of the people in the relationship is stressing themselves, you know, you can’t be present with your partner in relating if you are stressing about the relating or if your mind’s on work.

And, and you’re trying to relax on the couch and have a conversation. So it costs relationships. And, you know, 50% of people divorce these days, and the root of that problem is they’re not present with each other. And, and both parties in the relationship are suffering themselves. And so, you know, it costs a lot for, for some people it cost them half their bank balance and their peace of mind.

Um, and then, you know, in the work front performance. Um, it’s a huge drag on performance. It’s a huge drag on team harmony. Um, it’s a huge drag on organizational culture. Um, be because we’re fighting each other. When we’re fighting ourselves. We’re fighting each other. And so, you know, if you look at what’s going on, if we look at what’s going on in the world at the moment

[00:20:07] Rob: mm-hmm.

[00:20:07] Andrew: We’ve got wars everywhere.

[00:20:09] Rob: Yeah.

[00:20:09] Andrew: You, you know, where does that start? It starts inside the mind of those. That are participating. Those war. Mm. Yeah. And so it’s everywhere.

[00:20:20] Rob: Yeah. And it’s funny, why aren’t we talking about mindset more? Because as you said, basically in our existence as human beings, mindset’s, everything, it’s our perception of what’s happening in the world.

Whether our boss says something to us and whether we go, eh, or we go, oh, this is the end of the world. This is crazy. How can he say this or she say this to me? Yeah. Um. Why aren’t we focusing more on mindset skills for people? Yeah. Because surely that’s at the root cause of what’s happening with, of course, mental health and, and other issues.

[00:20:52] Andrew: Yeah, of course. Uh, what great questions by the way, Rob. Thanks mate. Yeah, I think just from my perspective and you know, having sort of run businesses and large projects before, you know, I think the majority of society is still in the business case game and, you know, wanting to achieve. Some sort of scientifically provable outcome.

Mm. You know, they want a business case for everything. Well, the mind is subjective. You know, it’s not an object. I often say this to people like, this mouse here is objective. I can see it. I can taste it. I can touch it. I can feel it. The mind, you can’t that there’s, there’s no, there’s no way. Um, or there is ways, but it’s very difficult for people to link a predictable, tangible outcome with a change in the input.

Hmm. And so I see this in organizations. Everywhere in cultures everywhere. And you know, I’ve seen it in my own marketing journey, you know, how do you market a subjective shift with an objective outcome? Mm. It’s difficult. Mm. But people are seeing it more. You know, there’s stats, like 57% of your workforce is likely to be burnt out.

Um, I don’t agree with that stat, by the way. I think it’s somewhere closer to about 20%. And how are we even defining burnout? Uh, but besides the point, you know, there’s a lot of mental health issues running around at the moment. Anxiety, depression, loneliness. They’re the big three, and they’re all related to burnout.

You know, to get to burnout, you’ve gotta go through depression first. This is what a lot of people don’t. Understand. And you know, a lot of men in particular, um, they’ll be depressed for a long time and they won’t even know it. Mm. They’ll just feel tired, they’ll feel flat, they’ll feel a bit numb. Like they’re, they’re not alive and they don’t recognize they’re depressed.

Yeah. And so as a society, we’re, we’re, we’re steadily waking up to this stuff, but, but it takes time. Yeah.

[00:22:57] Rob: Does, is stress manifesting differently for men and women in the workplace? Is it, is it looking different?

[00:23:05] Andrew: Yeah. I would say I, I probably don’t want to buy into too many gendered stereotypes because I would say Rob, that like everyone experiences stress.

Yeah, yeah. Right. Yeah. And actually stress, when we get to the root of it, it’s a feeling of loss of control. Hmm. So that’s at the root of it. Um, we might take a red pill on that later. Uh, I would say women are probably, as a generalization, better at vocalizing and expressing. And acknowledging their stress still.

Yep. And men are getting way better at it, but men tend to stuff it down. Mm. And you know, there was some research that was done a little while ago where, you know, a lot of type A men, let’s say they die a lot earlier. Mm. So people like me that have been, you know, executives and running big teams and in an environment where it’s quite conducive to stress, they generally die about seven to 10 years earlier.

Wow. Lot more cardiovascular disease and a lot more, um, you know, things like Parkinson’s and the AL Alzheimer’s.

[00:24:13] Rob: Mm. I I had a question here for you around managing stress. Mm. But I kind of reflecting on what we’re talking about and I want to take it one step back ’cause I think. If we manage stress, it’s being reactive.

Yes. It’s reactive because the situation’s already happened. Yes. But based on what you are saying, if we can focus a little bit more on mindset and what’s happening to us in the moment mm-hmm. Perhaps there’s a way of circumventing the stress before we get to it.

[00:24:39] Andrew: Yeah, of course. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So any, any feeling of tension in the body is a sign of stress.

Any form of tension in the mind is a sign of stress and it’s basically we’re, we’re placing our control out there. The, the control has not been owned in here.

[00:24:59] Rob: Mm-hmm.

[00:24:59] Andrew: Yeah. So, you know, a, a classic example of, let’s say overwhelm. You know, I remember reading a book on this with, with, with this example. So this is not mine, but it’s a beautiful example and is it okay if I share it for a minute?

Please do. Yeah. Yeah. This will, this will give people a really good window into what overwhelm and stress actually is. Yeah. Uh, and also the shadow. Um, we might be going a little bit too off pieced, but let, let’s say, imagine you’re Johnny,

[00:25:30] Rob: good old Johnny,

[00:25:31] Andrew: uh, and Johnny’s, Johnny and, and Johnny’s in his garage.

And his garage is a mess. You know, think about most garages in, uh, in Australia or wherever you are in the world, that is just like, it’s a cacophony of stuff, right? Yeah. Yeah. And, and Johnny’s like, you know, I’ve really gotta clean this up. And so Johnny’s standing there, he is in his garage, and he’s saying to himself, I’ve really gotta clean this up because my mind is cluttered looking at all this stuff.

And so Johnny makes the decision that he’s gonna clean up the garage right now. You can insert any work task here instead of the garage. So it’s not about the garage, it’s just a metaphor you, yep. An example. And so he makes a decision, I’m gonna clean up my garage. Yeah. And Johnny starts the garage. But the task is so overwhelmingly big.

As soon as he starts it, he starts to think, I’m never gonna finish it. This is gonna exhaust me. I’m gonna drain myself. I’m, I’m already knackered thinking about it. All these thoughts are going through his head. And so an hour in, he decides to stop. And so what’s happened for Johnny is he’s forgot his original intention, which is to clean the garage.

And what he’s done is he is overwhelmed himself with the size of the task. Nobody else has done anything. He’s overwhelmed himself. And so then what might happen is Johnny’s wife comes and knocks on the door. Hmm. And Johnny’s wife lovingly says, Hey Johnny, how’s the garage going? Now Johnny, if he’s like, most people will turn to his wife and and start blaming her for asking that question.

Yeah. And so the stress goes up a notch. Now, we’ve not only got stress from, you know, the size of the task of the garage, but we’ve got, you know, his wife asking a really neutral, loving question. All of a sudden, she’s now the problem, you know, leave me be because it’s not done yet. Mm-hmm. And so now Johnny’s overwhelmed on multiple fronts and his wife was never the problem.

But now she is in Johnny’s mind, and it’s all come from Johnny’s inability to stick to his original decision. And so Johnny’s overwhelmed himself. The garage didn’t do it, his wife didn’t do it. He’s overwhelmed himself. And so the whole thing with this, Rob, is that we’ve gotta realize that we’ve gotta be self-aware.

We’ve gotta be self-aware that we set out to do something. Then we lost the drive and the motivation to do it. And so the only person we can turn attention to is ourselves. No one else is gonna solve it, and the garage is not gonna clean itself. And so that’s the biggest thing to learn. That’s how we can not manage our stress, but just not experience it.

Mm-hmm. It just doesn’t happen. You’re just choosing. And if you, if you don’t wanna clean the garage after an hour. You sit there with yourself and you go, actually, I’m tired. I’m, I’m gonna go and have a beer on the couch now, and I’m gonna be okay with that. There’s no stress. You’re just making choices.

[00:29:07] Rob: Yeah. Well, and it’s interesting ’cause how much is that inner voice, which I imagine, as you said before, is a mix of, um, you know, what’s happened to us in our life, from our childhood to our experiences. Yes. That isn’t necessarily, uh, the nicest voice, let’s say that for, for most people. Yeah. Yeah. So how do we, how do we, and I love the the point that you said there, you know what, I’ve cleaned the garage for an hour.

Now I’m gonna go sit on the couch and have a beer. And I’m gonna be okay with that. Yeah. How do we get to that stage where we can talk to ourselves? And maybe it’s, is it self-soothing? Is it being a little bit more self-compassionate? Yep. But how do we get to that point where we can say, you know what?

It’s okay. I’m doing good. Well done. Okay.

[00:29:50] Andrew: Yeah. Yeah, a hundred percent. I love that. What a another. Great question. This is awesome. So I think the first thing for most people is to be aware of what’s happening. And if you want to choose something different. That’s okay. Give yourself permission. See, most people will have this raving inner critic and they may not even hear it.

They may not be aware of it, but for most people it’s running 24 7.

[00:30:16] Rob: Yeah,

[00:30:17] Andrew: right? And so you don’t wanna fight it. You wanna let that in. ’cause you know what, we resist persists. So you wanna let your inner critic in and you wanna talk with it, and you want to give yourself permission. To choose differently in each and every moment, that that’s the biggest shift for a lot of people.

And, and then to your point, you’re absolutely right. Self-compassion is the next key. So if you want to clean the garage for an hour and then you want to go and just be lazy on the couch for an hour and watch Netflix and eat a bunch of chocolate, give yourself permission and show yourself. Some compassion.

You know, you, you don’t have to be at it 24 7. You know, the, the, the garage is gonna be there tomorrow.

[00:31:12] Rob: Mm,

[00:31:12] Andrew: yeah. Exactly. Yeah.

[00:31:15] Rob: Yeah.

[00:31:16] Andrew: So permission and self-compassion,

[00:31:18] Rob: I’m starting to put together a little playlist in my mind. Cool. And you know, I’m a very practical person, so I’m trying to think for the listener, what are some of the steps we might take here?

So I think we, we could both agree that it starts with self-awareness. Yes. So if you don’t have that self-awareness and you don’t see these things arising within you, yep. There’s not much you’re gonna be able to do about it. True. The next one, self-compassion. Yep. So notice perhaps that things are popping up for you and, and maybe take another look at it and rather than your, whatever the story is that you usually put over the top of what you’re telling yourself, maybe just have a look at and maybe be a little bit more kinder to yourself.

Is that a good starting point? What else is there that we can add to this nice little playlist that can get people at least started heading in the right way?

[00:32:04] Andrew: Yeah, a hundred percent. So I think, yeah, the, the playlist, the first couple at least.

[00:32:10] Rob: Yeah, it was a long playlist.

[00:32:11] Andrew: The, the, the first three, which in, in my mind.

Is is the almost like if there is any silver bullet, these are probably it. Um, and life is complicated, right? So this is not a silver bullet for everything, but it’s a great start. First, self-awareness. You know, you’ve gotta understand who you are and, and why you do what you do, you know, what’s valuable to you, um, values, the way most coaches teach it and the way most people think about it.

Totally incorrect. Not even close. Um, but you gotta understand why you do what you do and who you are and, and what you value and why you value it. Um, so that’s the first thing. Yep. The second thing would be, um, become really clear on why you choose what you choose, because like I said before, you know.

Your quality of life is equal to the choices that you make. Hmm. And we have control of our choices. We, we don’t have control of other people or the circumstances that we face. Classic example, Nelson Mandala, classic example, Viktor Frankl.

[00:33:26] Rob: Hmm.

[00:33:27] Andrew: You know, they didn’t have control of their choices as of their circumstances, but they did have control of their choices.

[00:33:34] Rob: Yeah.

[00:33:34] Andrew: And so that would be the second one. And then the third one that’s just almost never talked about, and it does baffle me a little bit, is responsibility. Mm-hmm. So nobody else is responsible for you.

You are it. Mm-hmm. In the game of tag and the game of life, you are it. Yeah. And so. When we take a position that we are responsible for the quality of our lives and the results we’re getting, that’s the most empowering thing you could ever do. Mm-hmm. P Power doesn’t come from anyone else. Like for a middle manager out there who might be looking to their CEO or their boss to give them more power, just know that that’s not gonna happen.

You need to claim your own empowerment. Hmm. And so that is, I am responsible for the choices that I make. I am responsible for the meaning that I’m making around situations. I, if I, if I’m suffering, that is my responsibility. And I know this can be really hard to. This might be really triggering for some people.

Yeah.

[00:34:50] Rob: Mm-hmm.

[00:34:51] Andrew: Um, but I am responsible for the choices I’m making and I’m responsible for the meaning that I’m making too. And so that’s the third thing. And, and if a person can do those three things, they are well on the way to just a, a cracking life.

[00:35:07] Rob: Yeah. What a, what a great starting point. And I really like that last one as well.

Choosing or, or saying to yourself that I’m responsible. And it’s not responsible necessarily for whatever happens in front of you. There are things that are outside of your control, but you’re certainly responsible for the way you respond or react.

[00:35:25] Andrew: Right. I know how to really, really, yeah. Love that. Uh, Rob and I had a really delicate situation in a, in a, uh, workshop.

A couple of weeks ago where we were discussing, you know, is mental health a choice? You know, and for people that have been through mental health issues, that’s a difficult conversation for people who have been impacted by loved ones experiencing mental health challenges. That’s a really difficult conversation.

And you know, people can be born with different neurology. And so they don’t get to choose, let’s say, whether they’re, uh, you know, affected by bipolar or they’re naturally more depressive than other people. And, and so I’ve got a huge amount of compassion and love for people that are kind of, you know, are predisposed to those sort of things.

Hmm. But what I invited the group to think about is, well, that is what it is. And, you know, people come into these circumstances and challenges in life, and like you said, it’s, well, what do I do with that? And so, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s really for me, it’s like there is a possibility even if you are genetically predisposed or if you have tragic circumstances in life, it’s what you do with it.

And the, in the psychol psychological world, they talk about post traumatic stress disorder. Yeah. I’m not a fan. You know? What about posttraumatic growth order? Because I’m telling you that I’ve seen a lot of people that have had a lot of trauma in life and they’re unbelievably resilient, incredible human beings, and we do not talk about that at all.

And so it’s an empowering way to be in life.

[00:37:17] Rob: Yeah. And I totally agree and I’ve this, oftentimes I remind myself when I’m facing a difficult situation that someone else has been through this and that they’ve gotten through it. Yeah. And if someone, if someone can do that. Anyone can do that because we all have the capability within us.

It’s finding the right tools, the right mentors, the right guidance.

[00:37:38] Andrew: Exactly. Yeah.

[00:37:38] Rob: To help them get to that point.

[00:37:40] Andrew: Exactly. And so this last segment is said totally with a hundred percent love to anyone that’s gone through challenges right now. And you know, I just wanna say there’s totally hope. That you’re gonna come out the other side.

I’ve seen it with hundreds and hundreds of people. So, you know, big love to your, your listeners.

[00:37:58] Rob: Yeah. Amazing. Andrew, what’s one small daily practice that you personally swear by for keeping yourself grounded and keeping yourself in this great frame of mind?

[00:38:09] Andrew: Yeah. Cool. Okay. Uh, I might give a couple if that’s okay.

Please do. Um, you know, one is just taking the perspective that, you know, we have one life and the quality of that is, is up to us. And one of my mentors, many, many, uh, years ago, uh, Paul Check, he’s a fabulous, uh, guy in the States. He’s coached some, uh, amazing people. You know, he said like, don’t look outside yourself for things like your purpose.

You know, because the reality of it is, you know, there’ll never be another rob on this planet, ever. The universe never creates two of anything. Even identical twins are different.

[00:38:54] Rob: Yeah.

[00:38:54] Andrew: And so you are it, you are your purpose. It, it’s not to go to an orphan and help a thousand kids. You are your purpose.

Stop looking for it everywhere else. And so life is to be lived at the fullest in, in, in every moment. And. Why bother suffering yourself? Uh, so that would be powerful item number one. Yeah. And then item number two would be the biggest game changer for me, uh, and also with my clients that I’ve observed over the last few years is, is proper meditation.

Um, and so, you know. Meditation is active. It’s not passive. Meditation is not mindfulness either. Mm-hmm. And so we’ve talked a lot about, you know, let’s say mindfulness and self-awareness in the, in the first half of this podcast or the first three quarters of the podcast. Um, to be mindful and aware of your thoughts is, is first step, you know, and then with meditation to go beyond your thoughts and to have none at all.

Is to just experience bliss constantly. And, uh, you know, if we’re able to be in that state, you know, you, you are operating at your peak 24 7. And so that for me, I’ve observed personally and with clients as being the biggest game changer And a practical, uh, tip for people is that. You know, in the meditation space there’s like a thousand different ways to do it.

Um, every person’s gonna have their way that works for them. Uh, but meditation done well is to get beyond thoughts and to have none. And when you get to that space, you’re free. So that would be the second.

[00:40:51] Rob: Wow. Andrew, I had a long list of questions and we’ve even said things during this podcast that we’re gonna come back to.

We haven’t done it. Is there anything we didn’t cover off that you kind of wanna mention quickly before we wrap up today?

[00:41:04] Andrew: No, I think I, I think we’re cool, but I would say that this work, uh, it takes a while to get for a lot of people into the space where they’re ready to do this work.

[00:41:15] Rob: Hmm.

[00:41:15] Andrew: Uh, but I would just encourage people that are listening.

You know, if, if this has resonated for you, chances are you’re ready. And if it hasn’t, that’s okay. Chances are you, you, you’re not ready yet, and that’s perfectly fine. Um, this work is, is I, I believe, the greatest work that one can do in life. And so that would probably be the, the only thing that I’d leave people with.

And yeah, if we’ve got more questions, I’m happy to come back. Uh, if you want me to come back, Rob? Yeah.

[00:41:46] Rob: Yeah, a hundred percent. We’ll definitely get you back. Um, if people wanna connect more with you and find out more about what you’re doing, how can they do that?

[00:41:54] Andrew: Yeah, sure thing. So probably, you know, I’m most active on LinkedIn.

Mm-hmm. So, you know, if people have access to LinkedIn platform, you know, private message me or connect with me on, on LinkedIn, uh, you know, my website’s www.andrewrooke.com. You can find me there. Uh. Email me, [email protected]. I can share the details, uh, with you or, or send me a message on Facebook or Instagram.

Instagram. I’m less active on those platforms, but still there. And so, yeah, just reach out and, you know, feel free to have a chat. No obligation. I’m happy to help, uh, where I can. So yeah, thanks for, thanks for the opportunity, Rob.

[00:42:35] Rob: Yeah. Awesome. Andrew, this has been such a great conversation. I kind of feel like it’s been a little bit of self therapy for me.

Uh, I had a list of questions, but we took it in a different way and I think there is so much value here for people. So really appreciate your time and really appreciate what you’re putting out into the world, mate. Thank you so much.

[00:42:53] Andrew: Yeah. And likewise, just back to you. I appreciate your time. I appreciate the invitation.

You’re doing great stuff here. The world needs more of this, more balanced leaders. Uh, so thank you so much, Rob. Yeah, thanks mate. Appreciate it.