Transcript

 

Rob Hills: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Balanced Leader Podcast. Where we tackle the ultimate challenge for leaders, achieving peak performance without sacrificing your wellbeing. If you’re ready to lead with clarity, energy and impact without burning out, then you’re in the right place. I’m Rob Hills, your leadership and wellbeing coach.

 

And in each episode, I’ll give you the insights, tools and strategies that will enable you to thrive. Today, we’re tackling one of the biggest leadership traps out there, busyness. My guest is Brendon Le Lievre, an executive coach and leadership expert who helps leaders escape the busyness cycle and become more focused, strategic, and effective.

 

In this episode, Brendon shares why so many leaders are overwhelmed, how busyness has become a badge of honor, and the six different busy styles that might be keeping you stuck. If you’ve ever felt stretched too thin or caught in the whirlwind of always doing, then [00:01:00] this episode is for you. So let’s dive into today’s episode with Brendon Le Lievre.

 

Welcome Brendon to the Balance Leader Podcast. Thank you so much for joining us today. 

 

Brendon Le Lievre: Thanks for having me, Rob. Good to be here. 

 

Rob Hills: I’m really excited to have you on the show today, Brendon. You and I have known each other for about, oh, I think it’s about eight years now. I still don’t know how to say your last name, so I’m going to give it a crack.

 

Brendon Le Lievre. Is that right? 

 

Brendon Le Lievre: Yeah, that’s how I say it. Uh, but I tend to try and find people with a French accent to say it for me because it sounds much better when there’s a French accent on it. Uh, and so when I’m running workshops, that’s usually how I kick off. Yeah. Uh, and sometimes there’s someone who can.

 

It sounds marvellous, but it’s just the surname. I say no family to visit, no chateau in the Bordeaux region to inherit, which gets some giggles to start [00:02:00] with. 

 

Rob Hills: So disappointing, mate. I thought that was actually a thing. There you go. I’ve loved over the last eight years watching your evolution from public servant to now you own your own consultancy.

 

Um, and I, you know, we’re connected on LinkedIn and through different channels, and I love the content you’re putting out into the world, but before we jump into any of that, can you tell listeners a little bit about your background and how you came to do what you do? 

 

Brendon Le Lievre: Yes. So I started in the public service, got a job as a result of work experience.

 

And thought this is, this goes all right. I don’t really know what I want to be when I grow up yet, but I used to work in an IT help desk and just, I just pray that technology works now cause I don’t have very good skills in that space anymore. And then I was lucky I’d got to do lots of stuff. I worked in a big agency.

 

So I’m. Manage projects and I led teams and I worked in level three support for it stuff and I did [00:03:00] major change coordinate and did lots of stuff but I didn’t still didn’t really know what I wanted to be when I grew up and then throughout my career kept moving into more senior positions was managing a team and had a conversation with a senior executive one day around development and he suggested I go and Do some leadership study.

 

And I went and did that and found coaching. And when I found coaching, I went, well, this is what I want to do. And so I have navigated my way into being an executive coach and running workshops on leadership now. Um, and very often pinch myself to say, how good is this that I get to spend my time doing this and working with leaders to help them be better leaders.

 

So is most of your business then around the executive coaching piece and then some of that leadership piece as well? Yeah, it’s sort of the slider moves. Sometimes it’s more coaching. Sometimes it’s more workshops [00:04:00] and I enjoy both So I don’t mind kind of where that slider sits I like the workshops because you can build good communities of leaders that can share Challenges and opportunities and strengths and, and what have you, uh, and I like the one on one coaching because it’s more targeted and more, what do you need?

 

And one of the other areas of interest I know you have, because it’s one that you and I share is HBDI. So the Herman Brain Dominance Instrument. Um, and that’s how we met each other. That’s like we were doing our certification training back in 2016. And I fell in love with that tool and still use it to this day.

 

And I’m like running lots of workshops using it. Is that part of what you do as well? Yeah, I really like that tool because it gives people insight into themselves. It gives them a language to talk about with others what works for them or doesn’t work for them. [00:05:00] And I really like that it helps people, what helped me and it helps people.

 

They’re not difficult, they’re just different. And if they’re different, I can just treat them the way they want to be treated. And that will hopefully get us a better result. So, but, and I’ve got the language to talk about it. So I just think it’s so powerful. Um, I was introduced to that when I was working in a government agency.

 

I remember doing the survey and thinking, what is this? Where is this taking us? What is this going to tell me? And then opening my results and going, Oh, well, where has this been? Like this would have been helpful 10, 15 years ago. I would have made some different choices maybe, but you sort of bump into it when you meant to bump into it, I think.

 

And I use it regularly and find it makes concepts really practical for people, which is nice. Yeah, it’s really interesting. I was having a conversation the other day with someone as I was giving them their debrief on HPDI. And at the start, they’re like, yeah, what does it mean? Like, [00:06:00] but, but how am I going to apply this?

 

How am I going to apply this? By the end of it, they were telling me how they were going to apply. And they’re like, and I’m going to do this and I’m going to do this. And this is amazing. And I, I had that experience, I had that experience quite a bit in workshops where people come in a little bit guarded, a little bit, you know, what fortune teller stuff is this?

 

And then leaving and again, as you described, they have a framework, they have a language to see how other people think and knowing their thinking preferences knows they’re not being difficult. They’re just, that’s how they are. And that’s different to me. And that’s okay. Yeah, I’ve heard it referred to as horoscopes for business, but it’s not that it’s far more rigorous and reliable than that.

 

But yeah, that sort of initial guardedness around us. I don’t know if I like this. And then this is really good. Yeah, yeah, it’s amazing. With the work that you’re doing with leaders in your leadership workshops and your executive coaching. What do you think are some of the biggest challenges for leaders currently?

 

The challenge that I’m focused on the most at the moment for leaders. And I think is, is the biggest [00:07:00] one is busyness. And so a lot of my content recently has been around. How do we get leaders to be unbusy leaders? I think that’s the challenge that they are facing. Um, it’s not about efficiency anymore or time management anymore.

 

It’s around let’s. really connect with what is it inside of us that makes us busy? And how do we be more focused, more strategic, more planned, more developmental, more impactful than just being busy? Cause I’m noticing that more and more of my workshops leaders are burning out earlier in the year. Last year, it was September, October, and people were tired, like, I need a break.

 

Yeah. When are you having that? And they’re like, oh, in December and January. And I’m like, well, how are you getting through the next two months? It just seems unsustainable. So I don’t think it’s an easy challenge that, for anyone, but I think there are things that we can do to. [00:08:00] Reflect on what makes us busy.

 

Uh, and I have been asking people, do you want to be as busy or more busy this year as you were last year? And no one has yet said yes. So, but we treat busy as a sort of a badge of honour. How are you? Are you busy? Have you been busy? I hope you’re busy. I’m like, I don’t want to be busy. Yeah. Yeah, it’s funny.

 

I reflected, I’ve, I’ve been watching you put out some of this content around unbusiness. And I catch myself now every time someone says, how are you? It’s like, I’m busy. And I’m like, I’m not busy. I’m great. Yeah. I’m fulfilled. I’m doing lots. I’m focused. I’m, yeah. Externally, I look busy. I am well aware of that, but I don’t think of myself as busy.

 

Yeah. Where do you think this comes from? Where is this need to feel busy come from? Is it? Is it workplace culture? Is it our own internal drive? Is it a mix of both or is it something completely different? I think it’s both. Um, [00:09:00] I think Internally, there are like, if I’m not busy, then I’m not adding value.

 

If I’m not busy, I might miss out on something. If I’m not busy, I might be thought of as lazy. Like that kind of internal drive can happen. If I’m not busy, I might let people down. And then I think externally. There’s a pressure to be busy because everyone else is busy in inverted commas. Um, or we’ve created cultures that are very reactionary and not put in place the things that help us to slow down, to be strategic.

 

to plan. I know when I worked in teams and I know, um, it still happens because people mention it in workshops, like the concept of the Friday afternoon special, this urgent briefing that shows up at three o’clock on a Friday and. I got caught by heaps of them and we’d stay back and we [00:10:00] thrash it out and we wordsmith it and we’d finally get it up the line and you’d go away and spend all weekend thinking about was it good enough?

 

Did it hit the mark? Did it do what it needed to do? And you’d come in on Monday and you’d say, how’d that thing go that we sent up on Friday? I didn’t even look at it. Like, why were we here till seven o’clock on Friday dealing with that? And cause that’s. Not how I like to spend my Friday nights. I, I laugh at that because I’ve experienced that myself.

 

Yeah. And you often put a lot of internal pressure on yourself to achieve something when the person who either asked, and it could be just a flippant, Oh, can you do this for me? But you sort of interpret a certain way and then you’re off to the races and you, you’re really busy doing something you probably didn’t need to do.

 

So there’s probably some communication. you know, that, um, we could clarify around that, I suppose, as well. Yeah, and leaders often say, I don’t have time to delegate properly, Brendon. I don’t have time to give feedback. And I think to [00:11:00] myself, that’s because you’re not delegating properly or giving feedback.

 

That’s why you don’t have time. Because everyone’s caught in this whirlwind of round and round and round. So, I really like, um, all of Michael Bungay’s work, but in this instance, his question of, uh, if I say yes to this, what am I saying no to? And I return to that regularly because I suffer a bit from the noddies.

 

Like people say, Brendon, can you, and I’m already nodding. I’m like, yes, I can. I have no idea what it is, but yes, I’d love to. Um, If I lean into that too much, I do overload myself and I do get busy. So I’m very focused on if I say yes to this, what am I saying no to? And it might be a small thing. It might be a big thing, but I think that question is really helpful because then if I do need to say no, what I can say or what other leaders can say is yes, I can do that [00:12:00] and here are the consequences or the.

 

Impacts of me doing that as opposed to no, I’m busy because if you say no, I can’t do it, I’m busy. If you want something done, you give it to a busy person. So it’s like, Oh, great. We’ll just make sure you find a way to do it. Right? So no, no, I’m busy. Doesn’t stop things. Yes, I can. And this thing stops. This thing’s slower.

 

This thing gets missed. Um, I don’t get to go to lunch. I don’t get to leave on time, whatever it might be. And they go, Oh, leave that with me. And I’ll come back to you if I need it is a better outcome. Who do you think is most perceptible to this? Who is the, the people that are probably, I want to say the worst at being busy, but you know what I mean?

 

You gave an example there before the noddies. I like that. I’m going to use that. I’m thinking I’ve got a couple of other sort of groups in my mind. The, uh, people pleases, perfectionists, the overthinkers, is that the sort of people that are struggling with this the most? [00:13:00] Yeah, that, I mean, that can drive it.

 

Um, you know, the firefighter, the person that. Likes the recognition from comes of knocking things over really quickly and getting stuff done. And I’m not saying that those things are not useful skills. I’m just saying, how do we reframe it into be impactful and unbusy as opposed to busy, busy, busy, busy?

 

Um, and, and how do we check in with, you know, if I’m a people pleaser and I please everyone around me, but I burn myself out, then I’m not really. Long term pleasing everyone because I’m not going to be at my best if I’m burnt out. Uh, or if I’m an overthinker and a perfectionist and everything has to be perfect before it gets out the door and then nothing really gets out the door and You know what is 80 percent good enough and and I know we have a funny relationship with good [00:14:00] enough it’s got to be perfect before I let it out, but my Thoughts are is you don’t get feedback until it’s out.

 

So get it to 80%. That’s a good effort. Get it out and then learn from that. Rather than trying to get it to 100 percent by yourself and it’s never going to get there. Well, and I’ve got another category for you. The, uh, massive ego, because I’m listening to you and I’m going, that’s me, right? I want it to go out perfect the first time.

 

And the amount of times I’ve done something, redone it, done it again, you know, not really socialize it broadly, but just checked again, checked again, checked again, ended up taking a lot of time. I’m not sure I improved it all that much. And in fact, some cases I probably. Probably did myself a disservice, the quality probably came down a little bit, so I imagine that might happen a bit too.

 

Yeah, and I think when I do that, like I wordsmith it and I change things around, and I go, yeah, that looks better, I’ll leave it for a bit and I’ll come [00:15:00] back to it, and then I word, come back and I wordsmith it again, it’s still not quite right. And then no doubt I go, I’ll just leave it, I’ll come back to it, and I come back the third time and I make it what it was the first time.

 

Yeah. It’s like it could have already been out, so, um. Just kind of letting go of that and thinking, not doing shoddy work and not doing a poor job, but is this actually going to be better if it stays with me for another two days? Or is it going to be better if I let it go and let my team of people or my stakeholders say, Oh, could have done this.

 

We could have done that. Or should I added this in? Yeah. Next time I will. Thank you. Yeah. You mentioned before badge of honor. Um, and I see that a lot in workplaces, like busyness is a badge of honor. But already I’m hearing from you, there are risks. There are risks to being busy all the time. And the one you mentioned that sort of stood out the most is probably burnout.

 

And I think that’s something we’re seeing a lot more in the [00:16:00] workplace. So what do you see as some of the greatest risks? If we don’t do something about this as a culture, we’ve got two responsibilities here. We’ve got responsibility as a leader to ourselves, to our family. But I think we’ve also got responsibility as a leader to our team and our organization.

 

What are the risks? What should we be looking out for? And I think that’s why it’s the next challenge for leaders is to create unbusy teams. So the organization might remain kind of busy around you, but if you can create a little pocket of unbusy, reduce the risk of burnout. Ironically, in my experience, it actually makes you more productive if you’re not busy and you get more done.

 

It creates space for opportunity. I think we miss things because we’re so focused on the busy that we don’t pause and think about, well, what are the other ways I could do this? What’s the new way I could do this? What’s the opportunity that [00:17:00] presents?

 

Like it creates space for people to do their best work, you know, to do the development activity that they need to do for themselves to be better, to, um, have time to build relationship and create psychological safety and trust and all those things that just allow us to actually. Perform at our best, uh, without the busy.

 

Yeah, this journey started. I read a Harvard business review article and it started by saying that there was an, a person who had immigrated from a non English speaking country to an English speaking country. And they thought that busy meant good. Cause every time they asked people how they are, they said, I’m busy.

 

And I. It’s like, Oh dear, isn’t that language important? And then I just started noticing it like everywhere. Are you busy? How are you? I’m busy. I’m like, and I, I [00:18:00] still catch myself when I don’t quite know what the reframe is. Um, which is why I’m in the unbusy. Let’s get unbusy. Yeah. You’re learning as you go, I suppose.

 

Yeah. It’s interesting. I hear what you say about productivity, and I think that’s really interesting, but I still imagine there’s people who are type A personalities who are listening to this going, What do you mean I can’t be busy? Or, you know, I’ve got to be busy. Otherwise, who’s going to get the work done?

 

What would you say to that? That type of person? So I think the first framing is what is the work? Um, and why is that work being done? I bump into so many people that say, Oh, but Brendon, we’ve always done it this way. And my initial reaction to that is, well, show me the piece of paper, you know, the legislation, the policy, the procedure.

 

The document that tells me why you’re still doing it that way, because in the grand scheme of things, always is not that long. [00:19:00] Yeah. Like these organizations existed for 10 years, Brendon, and we’ve always done it that way. Well, in 10 years is not that long a period of time to begin with. And second of all, if you have been doing it that way for 10 years, The world hasn’t changed.

 

Like the world’s the same as it was 10 years ago. So if there is a piece of legislation that says you have to do it that way, or a policy or a procedure, fair enough. But if there’s not, can we just explore why we’re still doing it that way? And Whether it’s still relevant for us to be doing it because I think often we get caught doing things that we’ve always done But no one really wants it or cares about it, or it’s not necessary anymore And it’s about saying well because like you say there’s that well, but that’s my work and it’s really important it may be but what are you not doing because you’re [00:20:00] doing that and how much more impact could you have if you did other things?

 

Um, so I think there’s that check in point, first of all, around what the work is and what impact you’re trying to have. And then there’s the, why is that work important to me? Yeah, and I think as leaders, again, we have that responsibility to the people around us and the people that we’re leading, that they see us not being busy all the time, making space, um, putting our mental health and wellbeing first as a priority.

 

And I think if you’re constantly running around busy, busy, busy, people are getting a different message than what you may have internalized yourself. So it’s really important that you sort of stop and look around and see how you’re showing up in the world and how people are seeing you and perceiving your actions.

 

Yeah. And I, I find That if I engage in some of that self care stuff, I actually work more efficiently anyway. So if I’m wrestling with a [00:21:00] challenge and I can’t work it out, you know, I can sit at my desk and my keyboard and kind of bash my head against the screen and I might bump into the answer. Or I can go outside and garden or go for a walk or Go to the gym and like 10 minutes in, I’m like, Oh, that’s how I fixed that.

 

So that may not appear quote unquote busy. Like Brendon, you’re just relaxed. You’re not doing much. And I was like, well, I’m a knowledge worker. I should be using my brain and doing the things that help my brain do its best work. Not. And running between back to back to back meetings is not helping my brain do its best work, so let’s try and be really diligent around why am I in this meeting, what do you want from me in this meeting, does this meeting need to go for an hour, um, cause that’s an easy kind of time save that, [00:22:00] I did a, I did a poll on LinkedIn and said to leaders like over the last two weeks, I think it was, um, how many hours a day have you spent on average in a meeting and four kind of was where it landed.

 

I thought, oh, that’s interesting. It’s not like four hours a day in, in meetings. And. Math’s not my strong point, so um, jump in at any point if you get lost here because it’s probably going to work better for you. But if we make those hour meetings 45 minute meetings, that saves us an hour a day. That’s five hours a week.

 

Let’s call that 20 hours a month. So that’s 240 plus hours a year, which is ridiculous. As long as my maths is sound. It’s really good. I mentally checked it. I’m pretty sure it’s right. So, yeah, it’s almost shocking when you go, but it’s only 15 minutes. But it’s the multiplier effect. So if we make our meetings [00:23:00] 45 minute meetings, we’re still going to get done what we need to get done.

 

And we’re going to save. Like that’s 10 whole days, so that’s a month of work a year, which like I struggle with the logic of that, but that’s where it gets us to like, I don’t have time. I’m like, okay, there’s a heap of time for you if you make a small incremental change to how long your meetings run for.

 

And it’s really funny because time seems to expand to the exact amount of time you set aside for a meeting. So if you set aside. an hour, the meeting’s probably going to go for an hour. If you set aside 45 minutes, the meeting will go for 45 minutes. It might be a little bit quicker, but it will still get done.

 

I love the idea of shortening meetings and I hate hour long meetings, particularly when you’re going hour long meeting back to back to back and you’re not having any time for a break. So I think if leaders can start scheduling more 45, 50 minute meetings, schedule a 45 minute meeting, let it go a little bit long if you need to.

 

You’re going to get that sort of break in [00:24:00] between, that pause where you can, you know, recalibrate, where you can take a breath, you can walk around the block quickly or whatever it is, go get a glass of water before you jump into the next one. And this, I think, particularly during COVID, but even more so as we work from home, is an opportunity to stave off Zoom fatigue because you’re not just always looking at a screen.

 

Yeah, because at least when we’re face to face, you might get to go back to your desk or you might get to go to a different meeting room, but online it’s just a conveyor belt. They just click out of that and I click into that. I’m at my new meeting. Hi everyone. This is my fourth meeting in a row. Like no one wants to, yeah, no one does their best work in that space.

 

So I think as a leader, if you’re creating 45 or 50 minute meetings, you create natural breaks for people. Let them, as you say, reset, recharge, rejuvenate, and get ready to go for the next one. Yeah, I love that. Mate, you’ve started to build a framework around the unbusy leader. [00:25:00] Um, and I’ve noticed that there are six styles that you talk about.

 

Do you want to just run us through what they are and what the alternative could be, perhaps? Yeah, so I’ve been thinking, like, what is it that makes us busy? Um, and that there’s six styles. So, uh, there’s the thorough overseer, which is a bit of a reframe on micromanager because I think micromanager has a bad rap and overseer.

 

It seems it’s kind of more what it appears to me. So that’s a bit more gentle. Yeah, let’s check all the details. Let, you know, we won’t let things go. There’s the perfectionist, which does what it says on the label. They’re over committed. So that’s the noddies. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Um, the task saturated, which is you just bombarded with stuff to do and.

 

A lot of that is going to potentially be, you know, Friday afternoon specials that don’t actually have that much impact. There’s a people pleaser. Um, whereas I’ve got to make sure everyone else is happy, but [00:26:00] not worry too much about the impact on me. And then the firefighter, like there’s emergencies everywhere.

 

We have to react. We have to solve them all. So my encouragement to people is to try and reframe how they see themselves in this unbusy style. So instead of thorough overseer, let’s Bring some strategic visionary approach to our leadership. So big picture, let’s make things happen. Let’s empower our team instead of the perfectionist.

 

My reframe there is efficient achiever. So get stuff done efficiently. So balance high standards with speed. Uh, the overcommitter becomes the purposeful prioritizer. So we can’t do everything. We have to draw a line somewhere. Uh, and, you know, it’s a bit of an arbitrary line, really, as to where the [00:27:00] resources stop and we, we end.

 

So, um, that’s my, if I say yes to this, what am I saying no to? And then be comfortable with the what I’m saying no to. Uh, task saturated is balanced executor. And the reframe there is that’s more, Externally driven than the internally driven overcommittal overcommittal is I need to do it for me and the task saturated is everyone just keeps pulling stuff on my plate is how I split those two instead of a people pleaser assertive collaborator.

 

So how do we build strong relationships? and networks, but do so in a way that empowers us and them rather than damaging is the wrong word, but us burning ourselves out for the benefit of others. And then let’s solve problems proactively instead of jumping from emergency to emergency, you know, chaos to chaos to chaos.

 

We can see some [00:28:00] of these things happening. Let’s put a bit of a plan in place and, I don’t know, to extend the analogy, if it’s not too much, you know, maybe do some backburning, maybe do some forest management, maybe, um, look after the things that we need to look after in the off season, uh, in order to, to work better when the emergencies do happen, because they are going to pop up.

 

But we should, I don’t think, and I hope that, um, we don’t see leaders continue to operate in that environment where it’s just emergency, emergency, emergency all the time. Because it’s not good for anyone. I, I love these reframes, mate. Uh, I’m wondering, is it something that people Should have a look at the list and, you know, say which one they are.

 

And by the way, I think I’m all of them to some degree, um, which I hope I’m hoping is a common thing, Brendon. Otherwise, you know, we’re going to have to have a longer session here, mate. Um, but is it just the matter of saying, you know, instead of calling [00:29:00] myself a perfectionist, I’m now going to look at myself as an efficient achiever.

 

Is it mentally reframing it in your mind? Yeah, the reframe’s important. That’s where I was, um, hoping this would go. Um, the next, the next thing I’d like to do, but it’s a matter of if I say yes to this, what I’m saying no to some other stuff at the moment. Very strategic, I like that. I’m working on it. Yeah, I’m a work in progress.

 

Uh, it is. I’d like to create and I’m working on creating, um, so patent pending, uh, kind of diagnostic tool to help us work out where our busy comes from. Yeah, right. And then where we should focus our efforts in order to reframe it with some really practical implementable tips and thoughts about what next.

 

So, uh, part of me putting those reframes out there is to kind of sense check them with people, you know, is, is this the six types? [00:30:00] Should it be five? Should it be 10? Like, is the, are these reframes landing for people? And then look at how do we measure it? How do we identify what are the characteristics of these different styles of busy?

 

And what would I like to think of? Well, mate, and if you ever do get that set up, let me know. I’ll be your first customer. Because like I said, there’s a few there I see. Uh, on my list. What do you think people can do if they feel themselves succumbing to the busyness trap? So, they might be going about their day and they start to feel a little bit frantic and they notice themselves they’re running from task to task they’re being a firefighter.

 

There’s always an emergency. What should they do? What are the tactical things they can do to help them? So many, which one do I, and so individual as well, but I hear you, it’s an important question. So I think, um, like the first thing is to recognize it, because sometimes [00:31:00] we get caught in it, we don’t even realize, um, what’s happening.

 

Uh, I benefit from a few things. So I have, um, outsourced a lot of my thinking around, Important activities to me, to my calendar. And so when I show people my calendar, they’re like, why do you have lunch in your calendar or why do you have go to the gym in your calendar or why do you have You know, pick the kids up from school or drop the kids off at school and you can, shouldn’t you just remember that?

 

I’m like, yeah, but now I don’t have to remember to do it. I just have to remember to check my calendar. So I just shove all that in there and then I look at my calendar and I’m like, Oh, it’s time to go to the gym. So I better go to the gym like I would with any other meeting. So I find that really helps for me.

 

Um, two other things that are in my calendar that really helped me to get unbusy is, um, And these are sort [00:32:00] of more longer term things that to implement is on a as early as I can in the week I have a plan the week half an hour set aside and that seems really indulgent But every time I don’t spend that half an hour kind of just looking through this week and usually next week and going Have people responded to invites that I’ve sent and have people got Zoom links or Teams links or Webex links or whatever it is?

 

Have I set time aside to travel? Have I got the report that I want to discuss with the person written? Uh, do I know where I’m actually going for this meeting? Every time I don’t do those things, I end up in the wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong information to meet the wrong person who’s not expecting me to be there.

 

So I end up wasting so much more time. and being ineffective because I don’t send those reminders or kind of check in or whatever it might be. And then on a Friday afternoon, I reflect on, [00:33:00] and I identify at least three things that went well and no more than three things that could have gone better. And I find that really helps kind of sense check how my week has gone.

 

Uh, so there’s that, but if when you’re in the moment, cause that was where initially where we started, I, I, I think like just recognizing it. stopping. Um, and there’s a coach that I do a lot of work with who has this beautiful question, which is, um, what’s required of me right now. I love that. And just return to that.

 

So, I think that’s such a beautiful question. It’s got so many applications. She asks me it regularly. Or she might even ask, like, what’s required of us right now? Like, what do we need to do? Uh, to just kind of work out where I should be. And cut away [00:34:00] some of the fluff. And, you know, what is required of me right now might be that I just go and fill my drink bottle up.

 

Or I go and have a difficult conversation or I just sit for 15 minutes and do some mindfulness or whatever it might be, that might be what’s going to be best for me right now. Yeah, there’s some great suggestions there. I love the, I call it the mind sweep, which is what I do on a Friday afternoon instead of a Monday morning, but really like plan out my week.

 

I’m an absolute convert for putting everything into the calendar, blocking out. What you prioritize gets done. And if you don’t, if it’s not in the calendar for me, um, of that nature, it won’t get done. And I love this, what’s required of me right now, because I think often I’m feeling anxious and frantic and busy because I think I’ve got 15 things to do and I probably do, but there’s only really one thing I can do at a time.

 

So what’s required of me right now might be a great way for people [00:35:00] to, to come back to the center and go, okay. What’s the thing? What do I need to be focusing on? So I think that’s a great refrain. Mate, I want you to get out your crystal ball for me. So let’s look forward five to 10 years from now. There is a workplace revolution because you’ve gone viral and people no longer wear busyness as a badge of honor.

 

What does the workplace look like if everyone is no longer running around? Like Headless Chook’s being busy. Mm. What a nice, uh, vision to, to have. So I think if, if, when, let’s say when, when, when the words are important, when that happens, I think, uh, leaders will have good intent for what they’re trying to achieve.

 

And we’ll communicate that with their team, but there’ll be time for them to focus themselves and their teams on what is actually important and it’s actually going to create outcome as [00:36:00] opposed to output. And, uh, they’ll have the space in order to do those things. And there’ll be a decision about when we are, I’ll say busy and when we’re not.

 

So sometimes we, there is just. Stuff that happens and we have to respond frantically and get stuff done. Um, and I’m, I’m not a purist. I think we’ll never get away from that. There will be emergencies. There is stuff that’s important on short turnaround where we kind of have to drop what we had planned and step into something else.

 

Absolutely. But it’ll be a choice. And a conscious choice, not a state of being. And I hope, um, it creates a workplace where people are able to achieve the things they want to achieve, create the change they want to see and feel fulfilled by their, the work that they’re doing. That’s, that would be, that would make me very happy.

 

Sounds amazing. Sign me [00:37:00] up. Brendon. It’s there for us to create, Rob. It’s there for us to create and everyone else later. I couldn’t agree more. What’s one question I didn’t ask today that maybe you’d hope that I would have? And if I did ask it. How would you have responded? That’s one question you didn’t ask.

 

That’s a good question. I didn’t know you were going to ask that one. Um, yeah, so I think, I think, I don’t quite, it’s not going to be perfect, but in the interest of, you know, close enough is good enough. Uh, we’ll get it out there and then we can do something with it. There’s a question around like, um, My own experience with busy and, and how I identify it, how I manage it, or, or how it’s shown up in the past that now makes this such an important thing to me.

 

So that’s a clunky clunky question, [00:38:00] but I think like I did say that from an external perspective, I can look busy. Right. So I’m a dad, I’m a small business owner. I manage two baseball teams and play in one myself. I sit on boards for a couple of organisations. Um, you know, I’m an active member of the coaching community in Canberra.

 

I do improvised theatre training once a week and perform. Like, there’s a lot. I’m well aware of that. But because I’m in control of it, I don’t think of myself as busy. I just think I’d like to have a lot on but I’m not busy. And I’m me. Obligations and commitments and things that are important to me that’s around all of that.

 

But when I don’t, and I do get busy, um, I, I know it definitely has an impact on me. And I, um, find myself starting to look for when, when’s the next [00:39:00] holiday? When’s the next break? When can I get away from stuff? I have been caught a couple of times, you know, standing barefoot in the kids sandpit out the back because it’s got Sydney beach sand in it.

 

So it’s kind of a little trip to the beach without having to go too far. Um, and so when I noticed that in myself now and I’m not having the impact that I want, I’m not looking after myself and role modeling myself the way I want to, to others in particular to, you know, my family around this is what I think we should be aiming for, um, then there is that opportunity for me to reset and start culling things out of my calendar and saying that I’ll have to wait or I’ll have to do that later, or I’m not going to do that anymore, et cetera.

 

So yeah, that’s the question and that’s how I’d answer it. Perfect. Thank you, Brendon. Uh, this has been a wonderful conversation. I really appreciate you being here, mate. [00:40:00] Uh, and I’m committing to you right here on air. Uh, I am going to be an Unbusy leader, so I’m joining the Revolution. Mate, if people want to connect more with you and find out more about what you’re doing, how can they do that?

 

Uh, so LinkedIn is a great place to stay connected for me and you’ll get to see kind of the things that I’m putting out, uh, across the year. I’m trying, and so far have achieved putting a piece of Unbusy leader thinking out on every Tuesday. So jump in and check them out when they show up on Tuesdays. Uh, or the unbusy leader.

 

com is where you’ll find me thinking my thinking around busy and unbusy and how we should aim to move towards unbusy. Amazing. I’m looking forward to watching it all, um, evolve mate. So thanks again. Appreciate it. Thanks Rob. Thanks for having me and welcome to the revolution. It’s good to have someone on board.

 

Love [00:41:00] it.